Since this forum is so obsessed with weight

[them_apples]

Marciano's stamina was on display against OLD MEN.
Can take lots of punishment from old cruisers,can he take lots of punishment from you super heavies like Lewis, Bowe.Wlad ,Vitali? The fact that he proved he could take lots of punishment against these old men indicates his defence was POROUS.

"I couldnt avoid his jabs I just had to take them." Marciano after his fight with the 37 years old Louis.

I pick Marciano to beat Joe Frazier that's where I rate him!
I was watching Marciano's fight back in the 60's.
Fan boys always get around to the phoney computer fight sooner or later.PATHETIC!

yeah but these were top tier “old men”. And Rocky was even “smaller” than them. The way he beat them was extraordinary. If Rocky was 186 lbs at heavyweight, he wasnt much heavier than charles or Walcott were after rehydrating at 175. So either way you put it Rocky is the only guy to sink all those guys into retirement and beat them up viciously in the process. (Seriously, charles took career ending damage, and walcott was unconscious for how long?? Brain damage) moore I suspect faired little better.

you can’t suddenly claim Rocky is a heavyweight fighting lhws then call him a cruiser whenever he’s pitted against new competition.

There is a bit of guess work though here too:

from my personal observation watching boxing, ill say there are 2 real factors that determine how a fight plays out: the styles of the fighters, and their mentality/confidence

the big reason Rocky has a good chance at scrubbing anyone is because he’s likely the toughest, most determined and iron willed heavyweight ever. He seemed almost sociopathic at times.

this matters more than anything. Those fights were hard for Rocky because he couldn’t hit them easy or catch them. They were quick savvy fighters. But give Rocky a bigger slower target and call in a fight, you would be surprised where that iron willpower would start taking its toll. Hitting rocky was like an on button. His late round rallies were legendary.

[Ivich]

yeah but these were top tier “old men”. And Rocky was even “smaller” than them. The way he beat them was extraordinary. If Rocky was 186 lbs at heavyweight, he wasnt much heavier than charles or Walcott were after rehydrating at 175. So either way you put it Rocky is the only guy to sink all those guys into retirement and beat them up viciously in the process. (Seriously, charles took career ending damage, and walcott was unconscious for how long?? Brain damage) moore I suspect faired little better.

you can’t suddenly claim Rocky is a heavyweight fighting lhws then call him a cruiser whenever he’s pitted against new competition.

There is a bit of guess work though here too:

from my personal observation watching boxing, ill say there are 2 real factors that determine how a fight plays out: the styles of the fighters, and their mentality/confidence

the big reason Rocky has a good chance at scrubbing anyone is because he’s likely the toughest, most determined and iron willed heavyweight ever. He seemed almost sociopathic at times.

this matters more than anything. Those fights were hard for Rocky because he couldn’t hit them easy or catch them. They were quick savvy fighters. But give Rocky a bigger slower target and call in a fight, you would be surprised where that iron willpower would start taking its toll. Hitting rocky was like an on button. His late round rallies were legendary.

His late round rallies were for the most part against older ring worn opponents.You would expect him to be fresher in the later stages of a fight when he is facing men 37.38. 39 Marciano wore men out with incessant pressure, would he wear out men his own age ,men a lot bigger, who would have the option to smother him when he closed the gap? Its one thing whaling away at a man nearly 40 who is 188lbs until his legs go on him,but it's quite another to have that success against a modern sized heavy who is skilled and in his prime.Does Marciano have a better engine than say Joe Joyce?

[them_apples]

His late round rallies were for the most part against older ring worn opponents.You would expect him to be fresher in the later stages of a fight when he is facing men 37.38. 39 Marciano wore men out with incessant pressure, would he wear out men his own age ,men a lot bigger, who would have the option to smother him when he closed the gap? Its one thing whaling away at a man nearly 40 who is 188lbs until his legs go on him,but it's quite another to have that success against a modern sized heavy who is skilled and in his prime.Does Marciano have a better engine than say Joe Joyce?

First of all, Charles, Walcott and Moore are very skillful and experienced. So would a bigger younger man be able to smother more and lean on Rocky? Yes, certainly - given they knew how to and would. Aside from that though, would these bigger and younger men defend themselves well, or would Rocky be able to hit them much easier? Theres a lot of factors.

I don't go around picking rocky over everyone, I always do a probability - Essentially anyone Rocky can catch I give him a chance, because blow for blow is a hard thing to win against Marciano. It's mostly just defending him against people that write him off completely because they don't know what they are watching.

I could easily see Holyfield and Bowe being pulled into a slugging match, and much of that size advantage could just as easily become a disadvantage if not used right.

[Ivich]

First of all, Charles, Walcott and Moore are very skillful and experienced. So would a bigger younger man be able to smother more and lean on Rocky? Yes, certainly - given they knew how to and would. Aside from that though, would these bigger and younger men defend themselves well, or would Rocky be able to hit them much easier? Theres a lot of factors.

I don't go around picking rocky over everyone, I always do a probability - Essentially anyone Rocky can catch I give him a chance, because blow for blow is a hard thing to win against Marciano. It's mostly just defending him against people that write him off completely because they don't know what they are watching.

I could easily see Holyfield and Bowe being pulled into a slugging match, and much of that size advantage could just as easily become a disadvantage if not used right.

Holyfield and Bowe were very good inside boxers.Evander bullied Tyson, Marciano would hold no fears for him. There is a poster here who obviously doesn't know what he is watching,and this post is a reply to him.
"Marciano wouldn't do well today he fought older men ,there wasn't much about then ,his size,he was too small for todays guys ,and bad balance would be against him nowadays". Know who said that?













Emmanuel Steward

[billeau2]

How does the debut Marciano at 192 fair against the 212 lb version of Wilder? Wilder can't box so it makes sense the lighter weight probably effected him, it's not like this guy can move round and utilize it.

That's a 20 lb weight discrepancy.

Louis vs Rocky was a bigger weight discrepancy. Foreman Holyfield was 30-40 lbs difference. Ruiz vs Joshua 2 was something around there as well, if not more. How are these victories even possible?

How does Marciano do against a 255 lb James Toney, who he's actually seeing eye to eye with for once but also giving up 60+ lbs. The same Toney that was beating or staying neck and neck with 230+ lb "behemoths"

Does character mean nothing?

If Louis can stop men bigger than Lewis, and Lewis has been stopped by men Louis size but vastly inferior in capability - does Louis not stand at least half a chance? lol

The two best active heavyweights in the world are around 220 and under (Wilder and Usyk)... Fury is the best but says he is retired.

[QueensburyRules]

The two best active heavyweights in the world are around 220 and under (Wilder and Usyk)... Fury is the best but says he is retired.

- - I'd have yer big toes lashed together as well as yer thumbs lashed together dressed out in oversized Depends and air plopped into the middle of Timbuktu for that slight of everything holy in boxing.

[them_apples]

Holyfield and Bowe were very good inside boxers.Evander bullied Tyson, Marciano would hold no fears for him. There is a poster here who obviously doesn't know what he is watching,and this post is a reply to him.
"Marciano wouldn't do well today he fought older men ,there wasn't much about then ,his size,he was too small for todays guys ,and bad balance would be against him nowadays". Know who said that?













Emmanuel Steward

evander and bowe were decent inside fighters but would get mauled because of Rockys 68 reach and inside power. Charles and Moorer were even better inside fighters and they stood no chance. Rocky doesnt need any room to punch.

and ill set the record straight, Holy and Bowe were decent inside fighters, but no experts. Keep in mind they got credit because nobody was fighting inside anymore in the 90s, thanks to the AMs which completely eroded that style.

also you know else said that besides stewart??

Everyone Rocky faced beforehand said this

and he demod them cause hes a freak

thick boned as hell 68 reach bone crushing power from 6 inches and 50 of them coming at you in the pocket.

you cant prepare for that, just get on your bike and stay away, hit him at range. They tried but couldnt. A bigger younger guy like Ali probably could, or some quick lhw like Spinks. Or maybe Lewis cause hes strong too. Foreman might be able to push him around and stop him coming in. Anyone else who can’t employ this is gonna be in for a rough night though.

[Ivich]

evander and bowe were decent inside fighters but would get mauled because of Rockys 68 reach and inside power. Charles and Moorer were even better inside fighters and they stood no chance. Rocky doesnt need any room to punch.

and ill set the record straight, Holy and Bowe were decent inside fighters, but no experts. Keep in mind they got credit because nobody was fighting inside anymore in the 90s, thanks to the AMs which completely eroded that style.

also you know else said that besides stewart??

Everyone Rocky faced beforehand said this

and he demod them cause hes a freak

thick boned as hell 68 reach bone crushing power from 6 inches and 50 of them coming at you in the pocket.

you cant prepare for that, just get on your bike and stay away, hit him at range. They tried but couldnt. A bigger younger guy like Ali probably could, or some quick lhw like Spinks. Or maybe Lewis cause hes strong too. Foreman might be able to push him around and stop him coming in. Anyone else who can’t employ this is gonna be in for a rough night though.

Marciano made his name beating up old men,he was very carefully matched and faced very, very few punchers .Some of his early fights were complete mismatches.Charles was a ringworn fighter who was best at175lbs Moore was 39/41 and best at 175lbs.
"Yeah I was right,he was a street brawler,he couldnt touch me when it came to boxing.Marciano was strong though,I figured that with a little more training,he could do it all.But right then in the ring I was busting him up with my jabs.
Everything was fine until the seventh round.My age gave me away; all of a sudden my legs gave out.They had to lift me off the stool for the bell eighth .
Marciano knocked me down with a left hook.I managed to get up after taking an eight count.
Then he caught me with another left that put me up against the ropes,and followed with a looping right hand.It hit me on the neck and I fell through the ropes" "I was 37 years old" Joe Louis after the Marciano fight.

[Ivich]

The two best active heavyweights in the world are around 220 and under (Wilder and Usyk)... Fury is the best but says he is retired.

Wilder is in the top 2 ?How do you know that? How do you know he beats Joshua ? Who has Wilder beaten ,an ancient Ortiz who else? 220lbs is big enough for anyone,185lbs is not!

[HOUDINI563]

The sport is boxing so knowledgeable boxing fans should be enamored regarding boxing skills and inherent abilities such as toughness/heart NOT how big a fighter is physically.

AJ as just one example is a huge heavyweight but has never really learned how to fight. Wilder is in the same boat.