Since this forum is so obsessed with weight

[Ivich]

The sport is boxing so knowledgeable boxing fans should be enamored regarding boxing skills and inherent abilities such as toughness/heart NOT how big a fighter is physically.

AJ as just one example is a huge heavyweight but has never really learned how to fight. Wilder is in the same boat.

32 years old Aj has had 27 fights,Joe Louis had more than that in his first 2 pro years . Is it any wonder, one was a well,schooled, rounded fighter by the time he won the title and the other was and is still a comparative novice?

[billeau2]

Wilder is in the top 2 ?How do you know that? How do you know he beats Joshua ? Who has Wilder beaten ,an ancient Ortiz who else? 220lbs is big enough for anyone,185lbs is not!

Well as far as what I know about Wilder is about what anybody would also know about Joshua. I'm saying as far as what anybody knows, Wilder's better, he's a stronger opponent.

I wasn't mentioning that weight characteristic to make a point about Marciano per se, I was mentioning it to show the size Queens facts. In fact if you look at heavyweight history there is not really a measurable increase in size. The size for a great heavyweight still hovers around 2:20 to 2:40, with lighter weights being more of a preference than a biological preordained situation.

So that was my point... I'm not getting involved in this back and forth about Marciano. I don't think it's anything that can be determined and I don't think it's anything that is constructive precisely because we have no idea how it would translate into a modern heavyweight scenario. All I know is there certain things about heavyweights that make them large that do not have to do with weight per se.

[Ivich]

Well as far as what I know about Wilder is about what anybody would also know about Joshua. I'm saying as far as what anybody knows, Wilder's better, he's a stronger opponent.

I wasn't mentioning that weight characteristic to make a point about Marciano per se, I was mentioning it to show the size Queens facts. In fact if you look at heavyweight history there is not really a measurable increase in size. The size for a great heavyweight still hovers around 2:20 to 2:40, with lighter weights being more of a preference than a biological preordained situation.

So that was my point... I'm not getting involved in this back and forth about Marciano. I don't think it's anything that can be determined and I don't think it's anything that is constructive precisely because we have no idea how it would translate into a modern heavyweight scenario. All I know is there certain things about heavyweights that make them large that do not have to do with weight per se.

I don't think much of Wilder or Joshua.Wilder has a great right hand and some balls, he cant fight inside or backing up and hasnt improved one iota that I can see. Joshua fought more or less the same fight against Usyk as he did the first time,After a couple of rounds he forgot about his jab ,stopped throwing whenever Usyk threw punches,stayed in the center of the ring when he should have been herding Usyk to the ropes and into the corners and apart from the 9th rd did not impose himself on Usyk I can't see how anyone could have thought AJ won that fight.he did a little better than last time ,but that's about it .He seems a bit gunshy to me and at 32 can he improve?
What's changed in heavyweight boxing is the size of them, this is undeniable.Liston ushered in the 215lbs age then Ali ,Holmes & Foreman now 30lbs has been added to the top guys with the Klits ,Lewis,Bowe,and so on.I see no reason why a 220lbs guy can't dominate the division ,provided he is good enough,and I think Usyk is.
The day of the tiny185lbs five feet ten man is passed and it passed 60 years ago and won't be coming back no matter how many fanciful adjectives Fan Boys want to label them with.

[billeau2]

I don't think much of Wilder or Joshua.Wilder has a great right hand and some balls, he cant fight inside or backing up and hasnt improved one iota that I can see. Joshua fought more or less the same fight against Usyk as he did the first time,After a couple of rounds he forgot about his jab ,stopped throwing whenever Usyk threw punches,stayed in the center of the ring when he should have been herding Usyk to the ropes and into the corners and apart from the 9th rd did not impose himself on Usyk I can't see how anyone could have thought AJ won that fight.he did a little better than last time ,but that's about it .He seems a bit gunshy to me and at 32 can he improve?
What's changed in heavyweight boxing is the size of them, this is undeniable.Liston ushered in the 215lbs age then Ali ,Holmes & Foreman now 30lbs has been added to the top guys with the Klits ,Lewis,Bowe,and so on.I see no reason why a 220lbs guy can't dominate the division ,provided he is good enough,and I think Usyk is.
The day of the tiny185lbs five feet ten man is passed and it passed 60 years ago and won't be coming back no matter how many fanciful adjectives Fan Boys want to label them with.

A perfect storm (the bolded) these guys are starting later and no one is mentoring them in the finer aspects of the Sweet Science. I agree. Lol I predicted the fight would amount to "round 13" so yeah... No suprises. That situation does tend to occur a lot in boxing. His body work was an improvement. No, at 32 I doubt it. I do think 220 is the magical number. I agree with you about weights under 200 but I think this has more to do with fight preparation than a fighters physical make up. I think bigger men in earlier times could have come in heavier for fights, but chose to come in as light as possible.

As far as an actual distinction in size, preclassical and especially the bare knuckle days, being heavier was not at advantage. A fighter could not punch with all his force because of the danger to the hands. Fighters also set up from sword's length (3 feet) and would then close to grips (grappling). As gloves allowed a fighter to hit harder size became more of an actual advantage as opposed to reach. But even then we see things like Bob Fitz who had the lower body of a light weight and the upper body of a heavyweight lol.

Size is a more nebulous category... A fighter like Liston was a big guy but as you even say: his weight was merely 215. What made him larger than life was his neck, hands, wrists... his reach. Liston would look a lot bigger than someone like Ruiz. Ruiz who weighs a lot more...

I don't think size=weight, not exclusively. otherwise I agree with you.