Lastarza,Layne, ****ell,Mathews v Usyk ?

[Willow The Wisp]

Nice to see some up-talk on Mr. Patterson instead of the old durability and protected fighter stuff. Is there something to those ascertains? Sure, and whatever. Fighers are all just flesh and bone. Floyd was one of the fastest heavyweight champions, one of the hardest hitting ones P4P, one of the more proliferate title defenders, youngest ever undisputed, first to regain the title, one of the most exciting to watch, and one of Boxing's greatest representatives ever. That's allot of good work there!!!!!

[edgarg]

Do any of them beat Usyk? If so which ones?

None of them. Not a chance. LaStarza was average middle level, ****ell was a career Light-Heavy with bad glandular disease which built up the flab, although he was fast on his feet. When you know that then best British Heavy was Bruce Wood****, that say's it all. The typical Horizontal Heavyweight., and the next best was Jack London a policeman aged 39 with 40 losses. He was the British and Commonwealth title holder in 1944-45., which shows how bad British boxing was then. ....

.Layne, was big, tough, but an average boxer, Matthews was the best boxer of that group, but not big enough nor good enough to bother Usyk.

[edgarg]

Yours is unassailable logic, and your characterization of Roland LaStarza is bullet proof. His marketability as a pleasing, degreed war veteran is illustrated by his segue onto millions of television screens in a co-starring role. That Valdez, Baker and others never got a shot is too bad. Marciano's bucket of blood style precluded a "parade of challengers" pace like those set by Louis, Ali, Holmes, Lennox, Wladimir....and then there was Archie Moore, ever manning the gate.

LaStarza went 11 rds with Marciano. I agree that he was protected , fought mostly bums I have his record and the records of his opponents. They'd make a tart blush.

All it does is to reinforce my belief that Marciano was himself a protected fighter and the worst champion on record. I have the records of all of Marciaon's opponents, and THEIR opponents. Many of Rocky's tougher fights were against guys who fought set-ups with 0-2 records maybe a fight or two before Rocky.

Marciano's first 10 of 12 "opponents had a TOTAL combined record of 1-19-1.

the 11th guy had a 10-1 record but HIS opponents had a combined total of 1-23. and all his "fights" up to Rocky were in Quebec, not noted for boxing ethics.... and were ALL SIX rounders.. Rocky was his first 10 rds. The 12th guy wasn't much better.

No point in kicking a dead horse. SO this is a good place to end this post.

[QueensburyRules]

LaStarza went 11 rds with Marciano. I agree that he was protected , fought mostly bums I have his record and the records of his opponents. They'd make a tart blush.

All it does is to reinforce my belief that Marciano was himself a protected fighter and the worst champion on record. I have the records of all of Marciaon's opponents, and THEIR opponents. Many of Rocky's tougher fights were against guys who fought set-ups with 0-2 records maybe a fight or two before Rocky.

Marciano's first 10 of 12 "opponents had a TOTAL combined record of 1-19-1.

the 11th guy had a 10-1 record but HIS opponents had a combined total of 1-23. and all his "fights" up to Rocky were in Quebec, not noted for boxing ethics.... and were ALL SIX rounders.. Rocky was his first 10 rds. The 12th guy wasn't much better.

No point in kicking a dead horse. SO this is a good place to end this post.

- - Except U still wiggling and sounding off like a blushing tart.

In comparison to modern heavies, Rocky was fast tracked, ie his first opponents record is 33-14-1 for a perfect 10-0, 10 KO record per boxing's official record keeper.

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/9032

Maybe U got that ol' outdated outlaw record keeper showing Rocky fought and beat his brother a few times, eh?

[Ivich]

- - Except U still wiggling and sounding off like a blushing tart.

In comparison to modern heavies, Rocky was fast tracked, ie his first opponents record is 33-14-1 for a perfect 10-0, 10 KO record per boxing's official record keeper.

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/9032

Maybe U got that ol' outdated outlaw record keeper showing Rocky fought and beat his brother a few times, eh?

His 1st opponent Lee Epperson was like him a debutee.ie 0 -0-0
After 32 wins Marciano was matched with Harold Mitchell 4-14-3Mitchell had lost his last7 would lose his next 2 after Marciano and retire.
After 34 wins Marciano was matched with Willis Applegate11-14-2 Applegate had lost his last 5. He gave Marciano a good fight going the distance.

This was a bruising, crowd-pleasing battle. Marciano won handily enough but failed to even knock down his opponent, who had fought only twice in the previous two years. Applegate's best round was the third, which the referee also took from Marciano because of a low punch. Red landed plenty of good punches, typically in the early parts of rounds, but Marciano almost always came back later to take the play away. Marciano's best round was the sixth. The attendance was 4167 and the gross gate was $7, 6l6"

It's official!
When it comes to boxing you are a complete ignoramus!

[Willie Pep 229]

What matters if Marciano had an easy climb to the top?

When at the top he took down whom needed to be taken down.

Louis
Savold
Matthews
Walcott (2)
LaStraza
Charles (2)
Moore

What matter is it, if his opponents were cherry picked? It does not make sense to care.

Cherry picking is only relative if the guy goes bust at the top. Then we all sit around nodding knowingly, claiming we saw it coming all along.

But, Rocky no go bust!

What if Rocky Marciano had nothing but 10 four round fights before Louis, all against all losing records, and then went ahead and defeated the above list anyway?

If you say a guy was a protected fighter and then he proceeds to win the title, hold the title, with no real complaints of ducking held against him, . . . damn it, you are saying he is just that much better than most. Imagine how great he would have been . . . LOL

By pointing out the limitations of Marciano's early opponents does not demean his accomplishment, it in a way, exalts it.

[Ivich]

What matters if Marciano had an easy climb to the top?

When at the top he took down whom needed to be taken down.

Louis
Savold
Matthews
Walcott (2)
LaStraza
Charles (2)
Moore

What matter is it, if his opponents were cherry picked? It does not make sense to care.

Cherry picking is only relative if the guy goes bust at the top. Then we all sit around nodding knowingly, claiming we saw it coming all along.

But, Rocky no go bust!

What if Rocky Marciano had nothing but 10 four round fights before Louis, all against all losing records, and then went ahead and defeated the above list anyway?

If you say a guy was a protected fighter and then he proceeds to win the title, hold the title, with no real complaints of ducking held against him, . . . damn it, you are saying he is just that much better than most. Imagine how great he would have been . . . LOL

By pointing out the limitations of Marciano's early opponents does not demean his accomplishment, it in a way, exalts them.

My post was in response to that fool Queensbury ,but I'll answer you.
When 90% of your reputation is based on your 49-0-0 unbeaten record posters are entitled, in fact obliged to scrutinise who you actually fought.
Cherry picking is cherry picking whatever way you slice it and many of Marciano's opponents were overmatched stiffs.
Louis was37 having his last fight
Savold 36 Having his last fight
Mathews as a hyped light heavy
Walcott was 38having his last fight
Lastarza did not merit a title shot.
Charles had nearly 100 fights on his clock and had lost 2 of his last 4
Moore according to his Mother was 41.
No Valdes,no Henry,noBaker,no Walls,noHarrison,no Jackson/

[QueensburyRules]

His 1st opponent Lee Epperson was like him a debutee.ie 0 -0-0
After 32 wins Marciano was matched with Harold Mitchell 4-14-3Mitchell had lost his last7 would lose his next 2 after Marciano and retire.
After 34 wins Marciano was matched with Willis Applegate11-14-2 Applegate had lost his last 5. He gave Marciano a good fight going the distance.

This was a bruising, crowd-pleasing battle. Marciano won handily enough but failed to even knock down his opponent, who had fought only twice in the previous two years. Applegate's best round was the third, which the referee also took from Marciano because of a low punch. Red landed plenty of good punches, typically in the early parts of rounds, but Marciano almost always came back later to take the play away. Marciano's best round was the sixth. The attendance was 4167 and the gross gate was $7, 6l6"

It's official!
When it comes to boxing you are a complete ignoramus!

- - I kicked one through the goal post of a specific question.

U crowing about moving the goal posts to Timbuktu with a nonapplicable inane example when U could start a new thread using that example as a case in point of U jibjabbering monkey proclivities shows U limitations.

[Ivich]

- - i kicked one through the goal post of a specific question.

U crowing about moving the goal posts to timbuktu with a nonapplicable inane example when u could start a new thread using that example as a case in point of u jibjabbering monkey proclivities shows u limitations.

ignoramus!!!!!

[Willow The Wisp]

My post was in response to that fool Queensbury ,but I'll answer you.
When 90% of your reputation is based on your 49-0-0 unbeaten record posters are entitled, in fact obliged to scrutinise who you actually fought.
Cherry picking is cherry picking whatever way you slice it and many of Marciano's opponents were overmatched stiffs.
Louis was37 having his last fight
Savold 36 Having his last fight
Mathews as a hyped light heavy
Walcott was 38having his last fight
Lastarza did not merit a title shot.
Charles had nearly 100 fights on his clock and had lost 2 of his last 4
Moore according to his Mother was 41.
No Valdes,no Henry,noBaker,no Walls,noHarrison,no Jackson/

Ya. As with his height, reach, quality of opposition and digging down deep to fully cleanse his division are not really the benchmarks of what makes Marciano great. Being small, powerful, teakwood tough and yes, being the one and only heavyweight to get out undefeated are. A 1949 opponent, Johnny Pretze worked for me in the early 80's. A super nice fellow and a tough bastard too. He was a Boston area fixture and was noted for having taught Boston Mayor Ray Flynn to box at the Boys Club. Several years later, front page of the Boston Globe, Pretze was shot and killed while beating daylights out of an off duty cop who was half his age and twice his size. The policeman said that he pulled his sidearm because ""I was taking a fearful beating and I feared for my life".