A key point that proves oldschool fighters were tougher and better chinned

[Willie Pep 229]

- - That shoulda been stopped the first time Castillo spit out his mouthpiece to buy time. Shyte refs then and now...only in boxing folks!!!

Na! Small dirty tricks whether for gain or survival shouldn't stop a fight. Takes all the romance out of the game. All you gain is mere 'fairness.'

Sometimes, and only sometimes, I think the only foul that should stop a fight is a deliberate head butt. A little biting, thumbing, or spitting out of mouth pieces, Etc. isn't so bad. It usually doesn't change the outcome.

[QueensburyRules]

Na! Small dirty tricks whether for gain or survival shouldn't stop a fight. Takes all the romance out of the game. All you gain is mere 'fairness.'

Sometimes, and only sometimes, I think the only foul that should stop a fight is a deliberate head butt. A little biting, thumbing, or spitting out of mouth pieces, Etc. isn't so bad. It usually doesn't change the outcome.

- - My bad. Corrales spit his dummy, not Castillo.

[Bundana]

I am looking for the right data to collect, then I will probably give it a try.

I don't know, if you're in the middle of researching this... and if you are, I certainly won't butt in! But if you are not... would it be ok, if I look into this?

[QueensburyRules]

I don't know, if you're in the middle of researching this... and if you are, I certainly won't butt in! But if you are not... would it be ok, if I look into this?

- - Yessss is the short answer.

[Bundana]

On a more simple level would just comparing ten-counts to TKOs tell us anything?

I would bet good money there were more ten-counts in 1930 than 2000.

I wonder?

The 86 world ranked boxers from 1930:
Total number of career fights 10,579 - of which 1463 (13.8%) ended in count-outs.

The 80 world ranked boxers from 2000:
Total number of career fights 3,991 - of which 814 (20.4%) ended in count-outs.

So yes, you were of course right about the 1930 group having more count-outs, thanks to their many more fights. However, taken as a fraction of their fights, they only scored clean knockouts in roughly one out of 7 - whereas the 2000 group did so in one out of 5.


Needless to say, these numbers are dependent on the "KOs" registered by BoxRec really are true 10-count endings - which of course is impossible to verify in every case (especially for the oldtimers).

[them_apples]

All the number crunching has done is expose our previous way of judging things which is based on vague notions. The more boxing we have watched the better the predictions but a look at numbers just shows how much we would have to delve into to get a really accurate idea. For every string of numbers opens 5 more doors, down to the cup of coffee a fighter had the night before.

Its great stuff though.

[billeau2]

All the number crunching has done is expose our previous way of judging things which is based on vague notions. The more boxing we have watched the better the predictions but a look at numbers just shows how much we would have to delve into to get a really accurate idea. For every string of numbers opens 5 more doors, down to the cup of coffee a fighter had the night before.

Its great stuff though.

Yes. That is accurate. We are beginning as a species to intellectually grasp the way the world works in terms of probability. If one understands the implications... You can practically faint. Our genetic code is programmed. It tells the body when to sequence proteins inefficiently, and we age. Not one cell in your body today was there 6 months ago.

And the underlying mechanism to this? Is probability. Numbers give us a scale of possible outcomes. But tracing this to a source is almost an infinite task.

[The Old LefHook]

I don't know, if you're in the middle of researching this... and if you are, I certainly won't butt in! But if you are not... would it be ok, if I look into this?

I just saw this post. Not sure which data you are referring to.

[The Old LefHook]

To me this thread is like postulating that fighters from the old days had larger ears.

The only possible thing I can see strengthening a chin, besides working on your collar (as Chuvalo called it) might be milk. I have no data to suggest old timers drank more milk, but maybe they did. I doubt they had calcium supplements though.

Certain kinds of drug addiction weakens bones, I have heard. Did old fighters do more drugs? I think (without proof) the answer is, no they did fewer drugs, other than alcohol, which is probably about the same now as it used to be.

[Bundana]

I just saw this post. Not sure which data you are referring to.

I'm of course referring to the data, you mention in post #36.