A key point that proves oldschool fighters were tougher and better chinned

[them_apples]

Take a look at The Ring's 1935 heavyweight rankings:

Here we find Eddie Mader, who made it into 6th place after 57 fights - where he was ko'd 11 times.
He finished his career with 29 ko defeats in 111 fights!

Just below in 7th place we have Hank Hankinson - with 55 fights and 9 ko defeats (all inside 4 rounds, 5 in the 1st).
He finished his career with 17 ko defeats (9 in the first round) in 76 fights!

If someone asked me to put these two in either the "glass jaw" category or the "iron beard" category - I think, I would go for the former!


The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Heavyweight--1930s - BoxRecThe Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Heavyweight--1930s - BoxRec

fair enough it seems that not EVERYONE had an iron chin in the top 10.

one more fact should be made is that being knocked out a lot also has to do with how easy you are hit. So its going to be very hard to use numbers to prove someones chin. But ill say by the amount of times some gets knocked out probably has a bit of an indicator. Unless they didn’t care and did it for a cheque.

[The Old LefHook]

the thread title may mislead you, but my actual post doesn’t say they developed better chins.

The first thing I always read is the title. Your title says olden fighters were better chinned. Maybe you didn't mean it. Did you mean to say something else? It seems to me that throughout the thread you are claiming oldsters had better chins, and using inappropriate theories to try and prove it, such as oldsters fought more often, knew better how to slip punches, roll with them and ride them, as if any of that is evidence at all that a man has or is developing a "hard chin." In fact, slipping and rolling with punches means you are not taking their full force. You also said:

<<Likewise everyone LOOKED iron chinned as well, even tall lanky guys like Charles or Foster still had sturdy heads, not even in line with their builds.
as far as the tapes go it seems as though they are better chinned as well. Add to this all the fights are very physical so they are much more used to getting hit.>>

There it is in red in the first post. [[Getting hit more makes you take a punch better because you are used to it.]]

When does that advantage kick in? About how much do you have to be hit before your new chin arrives and you are at your peak for punch taking? I imagine it is not the same for everyone.

You claim that everyone LOOKED iron chinned because their heads were big and sturdy. The popularity of boxing and education must have left a lot of pinheads as soda jerks and restroom attendants. Later in the thread you do acknowledge that Holmes took a good punch to his contrarily small head, perhaps being an exception, or perhaps being a trend of small heads succeeding in boxing once records are kept of head sizes. I want the statistic of head size supplied for every fight. It could turn out significant, though Moorer had a second class chin but a head the size and shape of The Alien's. In boxing there is always that wild card of earlier sustained concussions to consider, and we can never be sure how and in which cases that plays in. The guys "carrying the most glass," (Apples 4:14), could easily turn out to be the ones who sustained earlier concussions without realizing it precisely, maybe even when they were kids.

If all the fights of olden were very physical, as you claim, that could easily mean more concussions, thereby reducing the forefathers' ability for punch taking rather than increasing it.

Something we seem to agree on is the potential importance of head size and neck size in the equation. At least one MMA organization supplies the head measurements. Can't remember which one it was.

There are fighters today who fight in an old school style. Do they too have better chins than smooth point mongers?

[Willie Pep 229]

DIGRESSION (But maybe not.)

THE GIVEN: Fighters' overwhelming tend to have bigger hands than the mean.

THE QUESTION:

1. Are fighters with bigger hands drawn to boxing?

Or

2. Does, over time, from constant sparing and bag work, make the calcium increase and their hands bonier (bigger)?

THE OVER THE TOP HYPOTHESIS:

Can a jaw 'harden' over a boxer's career?

[Bundana]

fair enough it seems that not EVERYONE had an iron chin in the top 10.

one more fact should be made is that being knocked out a lot also has to do with how easy you are hit. So its going to be very hard to use numbers to prove someones chin. But ill say by the amount of times some gets knocked out probably has a bit of an indicator. Unless they didn't care and did it for a cheque.

It seems, that an interesting thread has just about run its course! I don't mean to stir up more trouble, but I have a serious question I want to ask you:

After 18 pages of arguments back and forth, I'm wondering if your stance against modern boxing has somewhat "mellowed"... or do you still see today's boxers as, by and large, a bunch of glass-jawed, robotic, points-seaking amateurs, lacking oldschool skills and savvy, who don't really want to fight, and who quit too soon when the going gets tough?

As said, I mean this as a serious question!

[YGriffith]

Or maybe those old school guys were feather dusters and couldn't crack an egg?

[StarshipTrooper]

Or maybe those old school guys were feather dusters and couldn't crack an egg?

^^^^^ Found the troll

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't think anybody with more than three braincells can dispute with a straight face that modern boxing hasn't been amaturized to such an extent that the only thing that really distinguishes it from the amateurs is a lack of headgear. It shouldn't be a shock: All the trainers today cut their teeth in in the amateurs and that's the style they teach. The pro trainers have all gotten old and retired. That's why pretty much all the heavier fighters fight in that grossly inferior straight up and down Euro style that used to get fighters starched when they tried it against real professionals.

[YGriffith]

I don't think anybody with more than three braincells can dispute with a straight face that modern boxing has been amaturized to such an extent that the only thing that really distinguishes it from the amateurs is a lack of headgear. It should be a shock: All the trainers today cut their teeth in in the amateurs and that's the style they teach. The pro trainers have all gotten old and retired. That's why everybody pretty much all the heavier fighters fight in that grossly inferior straight up and down Euro style that used to get fighters starched when they tried it against real professionals.

^^^^^ Found the troll

[StarshipTrooper]

^^^^^ Found the troll

OOOOOH! Wee Poppet knows the game of "I-Know-You-Are-But-What-Am-I?" that normal people get past by the 3rd fucking grade, but Poppet, with his stunted cognitive development, hasn't progressed beyond. Obviously he's someone who still licks the windows like he did when he rode the short bus back when he was learning to sort colored glass. In any case, it's time to put wee Poppet to bed. Toying with someone this intellectually stunted isn't remotely entertaining no matter how much of a wannabe Edgelord he is. Have fun in my ignore bin, Poppet

[The Old LefHook]

And so farewell to a fine thread. One of the finer threads since Nash has been boss around here.