A key point that proves oldschool fighters were tougher and better chinned

[them_apples]

It seems, that an interesting thread has just about run its course! I don't mean to stir up more trouble, but I have a serious question I want to ask you:

After 18 pages of arguments back and forth, I'm wondering if your stance against modern boxing has somewhat "mellowed"... or do you still see today's boxers as, by and large, a bunch of glass-jawed, robotic, points-seaking amateurs, lacking oldschool skills and savvy, who don't really want to fight, and who quit too soon when the going gets tough?

As said, I mean this as a serious question!

Ive done my job in help slowing the delusion. Too many times people jump to conclusions on weak facts. Whoever won this debate it def brought up good points regardless. I’m also tired of arguing in this thread and put less thought into my replies over the past few pages

[Bundana]

Ive done my job in help slowing the delusion. Too many times people jump to conclusions on weak facts. Whoever won this debate it def brought up good points regardless. I'm also tired of arguing in this thread and put less thought into my replies over the past few pages

Fair enough!

Any way you look at it, and whichever way you lean, when it comes to the old vs new debate... it has certainly been an interesting thread!

[The Old LefHook]

Which country in the world is most steeped in the amateur tradition? It must be the big iron curtain boss. Russia is certainly near the top or at the top. It doesn't seem that Russia has put out an over abundance of sissy boy points mongers. They have recently had some of the hardest punchers in the sport. They sometimes stay in the amateurs for a decade with no ill effects from amateurism.

Kovalev, GGG, Beterbiev, and Lomachenko knocked people out regularly. I don't know of a lot of Russian fighters who are points mongers. That does not sound like someone who pecks away towards a boring decision. Either they knock their man out or he quits.

[Bundana]

Which country in the world is most steeped in the amateur tradition? It must be the big iron curtain boss. Russia is certainly near the top or at the top. It doesn't seem that Russia has put out an over abundance of sissy boy points mongers. They have recently had some of the hardest punchers in the sport. They sometimes stay in the amateurs for a decade with no ill effects from amateurism.

Kovalev, GGG, Beterbiev, and Lomachenko knocked people out regularly. I don't know of a lot of Russian fighters who are points mongers. That does not sound like someone who pecks away towards a boring decision. Either they knock their man out or he quits.

Exactly!

The idea, that staying in the amateurs long enough to win multible world and Olympic medals, will turn you into a cautious robotic pro, shying away from too much physical contact, and content with just picking up a boring points win, rather than go for the ko... I mean, who can say something as silly as this, with a straight face? But then again, I suppose no claim is too outrageous, if the object is to belittle a certain group of boxers!

[ShoulderRoll]

Which country in the world is most steeped in the amateur tradition? .

Cuba.

Whose fighters so often turn into boring pros. Like Guillermo Rigondeaux and Rances Barthelemy.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I think the biggest thing that makes yesterday’s fighters tougher is that same day weigh in. That would probably do away with many of the weight bully stuff happening today.

That definitely needs to change. It's all a big lie really. No middleweight really fights at 160 at fight time. It's the same with every weight class besides heavyweight. Almost no one fights at the true weight come fight time.

[Willie Pep 229]

In theory, since everyone is doing it then a same day weight-in should result in the same match ups occuring just in a higher weight class.

Probably better health wise.

Of course if fighters try to dehydrate themselves and then fight that very same day they put themselves at health risk.

Years back, teams often argued over morning weight-ins vs. ringside weight-ins. Even over a short 12 hour period a fighter can rehydrate himself and gain an advantage.

So if you are going to go for it, what we will need is a dressing room weight-in about one hour before fight time.

Close to what high school wrestling does. You can only push the dehydration so far before giving up too much strength.

[QueensburyRules]

In theory, since everyone is doing it then a same day weight-in should result in the same match ups occuring just in a higher weight class.

Probably better health wise.

Of course if fighters try to dehydrate themselves and then fight that very same day they put themselves at health risk.

Years back, teams often argued over morning weight-ins vs. ringside weight-ins. Even over a short 12 hour period a fighter can rehydrate himself and gain an advantage.

So if you are going to go for it, what we will need is a dressing room weight-in about one hour before fight time.

Close to what high school wrestling does. You can only push the dehydration so far before giving up too much strength.

- - I would hope you would never want boxing to be at the HS 'rasslin' level.

Weighin's have always been egalitarian in design no matter the same day, or day before.

[them_apples]

Which country in the world is most steeped in the amateur tradition? It must be the big iron curtain boss. Russia is certainly near the top or at the top. It doesn't seem that Russia has put out an over abundance of sissy boy points mongers. They have recently had some of the hardest punchers in the sport. They sometimes stay in the amateurs for a decade with no ill effects from amateurism.

Kovalev, GGG, Beterbiev, and Lomachenko knocked people out regularly. I don't know of a lot of Russian fighters who are points mongers. That does not sound like someone who pecks away towards a boring decision. Either they knock their man out or he quits.

The russian amateur style is a little more focused on power. But it still lacks any type of knock out artistry. The American style and cuban style all suffer the same fate. Its developed around a high paced and short fight.

less rounds means less time to figure out and break down your oponents. Bigger foam filled gloves means less chance of hurting your oponent. Shorter rounds means the pace is fast, less thinking more doing. It means a lot more ineffective punches as opposed to well thought out timed punches.

take that style to the pros, after a few rounds it becomes ineffective. James Toneys style for example would murder a text book ammy style over the course of 12 rounds. His style would lure the ammy fighter into throwing 100 shots a round and missing all of them then knock them out cold the first breather they decide to take.

I think with these era debates though, it might be better to compare the best of each era instead, as opposed to era vs era. Cause the difference in individuals is probably a greater factor than time itself, or at least an equal.

[them_apples]

That definitely needs to change. It's all a big lie really. No middleweight really fights at 160 at fight time. It's the same with every weight class besides heavyweight. Almost no one fights at the true weight come fight time.

It also enables them to carry too much weight.

I can think of 3 fighters more recently who didn’t cut more than 5 lbs. hopkins, mayweather and pacquiao. Funny they were all top tier.