A key point that proves oldschool fighters were tougher and better chinned

[dreamroom]

You don't need an "iron chin", but you gotta be able to take a punch.

[billeau2]

My speculations have been centered on trying to find something that might make Apple's theory seem true. Problem is, every time I come up with a possibility I come up short, like I did with milk. Now I have even realized that huge rhino necks seen on some fighters these days may actually give moderns the edge in these chin wars.

That the old fighters were tougher, is a notion we have been exposed to forever. Of course that does not make it true, but it might be anyway. But old time fighters having better chins is a new one to me. The notion that there were all these great chins walking the streets baffles me. They belonged to insurance salesmen and plumbers who should have been boxers, fry cooks and barbers, for we are certainly not suggesting that every hard-chinned individual went into boxing, are we? There must have been plenty of hard-chinned individuals left over to roam the streets.

Apples claims that today's huge necks are due to steroids and not neck exercises. I don't have much evidence either way on that subject. Apple did not provide any proof, but plenty of su****ion. Perhaps that IS how boxers with elephant necks get them. Still I would like to see some proof, but know that none exists. How about some really strong circumstantial evidence, then?

We know Mosley was juicing, but he also had a normal, appropriate neck. That would have to be explained. Of course there are different kinds of juice, and one could always claim that those without elephant necks were not using the appropriate juice for neck-building. I am stuck.

It is very important to understand Steriods from a professional level. I happen to know a dear friend of Victor Conte who explained to me a lot of stuff... Conte was a Bay Area staple! Tower of Power, jazz... anyhow, at some point in time he started studying nutrition. Eventually he became well known as a nutritionist and at this point he purchased a very expensive machine capable of finding the smallest discrepancy in trace elements we need...The machine could detect at a very fine level these deficiencies. being that Conte had one of the few machines, and being he had, at this time, knowledge as a nutritionist.. he was a very sought after individual by the high and mighty "Atherton" crowd of athletes... vis a vis, guys like Bonds, Jerry Rice, etc... Steriods were, alas, just a part of that practice. Most of the work he did did not involve steriods.

On a side note, I once got access to a machine that was used on race horses for bad muscle and nerve pains... The thing cost my friend damn near 200k used! When you get a machine like that, it opens up a lot of possibilities lol.

[Willie Pep 229]

Just read my posts, lad, don't read every idea that comes to you into them. I knew Barry Bond's chauffeur. I was simply wondering why some of the cheaters use masking agents to conceal their illicit activities, and others do not. Maybe you do not find that discrepancy curious.

I find that quite interesting - ? Why didn't be hide it?

[The Old LefHook]

I find that quite interesting - ? Why didn't be hide it?

They are flirting with suspension and they know it.

[them_apples]

If, as you say, elephant neck is a well known side effect of 'roids, then all the cheaters would take the additional drugs to cover up their illicit activities, wouldn't they? I don't see why they would not all take the masking drugs.

honestly, from my own experience in boxing gyms and knowing and seeing dudes/chicks use drugs, they all use a whole assortment. Some use cheap stuff, strong stuff, mild etc some are clean. To answer your question no they all don’t use the same stuff. Can’t prove any of it, just making observations

If I was gonna guess Toney did whatever he could get his hands on and took HGH. His skull grew. Pacquiao as well looks like he did HGH. Shannon Briggs I’m almost certain. Marquez I have su****ions of as well. Canelo is a no brainer.

Andre Berto got busted for using Winstrol. Which is a “leaner” steroid but still a poor mans choice for a professional athlete. Likewise Andre Berto had an over muscled appearance to his body that never translated to raw power.

and before steroids fighters were sometimes on other drugs. In Duran bio (the first one, theres a few out now) he states king would shoot him up with adrenaline if Duran was hungover or needed a boost. Leonard and Pryor were both avid coke users, and you certainly don’t cold turkey coke on fight night. Pryor at least looks as though he's high on coke in every single fight. Can’t prove it, just making some observations.

I should make note: I don’t want to believe this because Pryor and SRL are two of my favorite fighters, but I can’t deny the idea of it

[them_apples]

It is very important to understand Steriods from a professional level. I happen to know a dear friend of Victor Conte who explained to me a lot of stuff... Conte was a Bay Area staple! Tower of Power, jazz... anyhow, at some point in time he started studying nutrition. Eventually he became well known as a nutritionist and at this point he purchased a very expensive machine capable of finding the smallest discrepancy in trace elements we need...The machine could detect at a very fine level these deficiencies. being that Conte had one of the few machines, and being he had, at this time, knowledge as a nutritionist.. he was a very sought after individual by the high and mighty "Atherton" crowd of athletes... vis a vis, guys like Bonds, Jerry Rice, etc... Steriods were, alas, just a part of that practice. Most of the work he did did not involve steriods.

On a side note, I once got access to a machine that was used on race horses for bad muscle and nerve pains... The thing cost my friend damn near 200k used! When you get a machine like that, it opens up a lot of possibilities lol.

I would consider having someone like Conte in your camp would give someone access to advanced athlete doping. Some athletes don’t get access to this and try other methods. Especially with more lax drug testing. Some only measures the level of test in the system it deems realistic.

I hated how Mayweather used olympic style drug testing to dodge a Pacquiao fight, especially since half his oponents were cheating, Floyd as well (just to a lesser extent I would think) but olympic style drug testing should be in the sport if we actually want it clean.

[ShoulderRoll]

I would consider having someone like Conte in your camp would give someone access to advanced athlete doping. Some athletes don’t get access to this and try other methods. Especially with more lax drug testing. Some only measures the level of test in the system it deems realistic.

I hated how Mayweather used olympic style drug testing to dodge a Pacquiao fight, especially since half his oponents were cheating, Floyd as well (just to a lesser extent I would think) but olympic style drug testing should be in the sport if we actually want it clean.

It was Pacquiao who dodged Mayweather due to Olympic style drug testing

Floyd was willing to take the tests. Pacquiao wasn't.

In situations like that you certainly don't give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who is refusing to test.

[billeau2]

I would consider having someone like Conte in your camp would give someone access to advanced athlete doping. Some athletes don’t get access to this and try other methods. Especially with more lax drug testing. Some only measures the level of test in the system it deems realistic.

I hated how Mayweather used olympic style drug testing to dodge a Pacquiao fight, especially since half his oponents were cheating, Floyd as well (just to a lesser extent I would think) but olympic style drug testing should be in the sport if we actually want it clean.

The thing is, Conte was a lot more than steroids.... steroids were actually a small part of what he did for athletes. Just something to me aware.

[QueensburyRules]

It was Pacquiao who dodged Mayweather due to Olympic style drug testing

Floyd was willing to take the tests. Pacquiao wasn't.

In situations like that you certainly don't give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who is refusing to test.

- - l'l floydy never took Olympic style testing as in NEVER!

He the one who insisted on non standard drug testing, and wouldn't agree with Manny's compromise, but Manny make the March 13,2010 date l'l floydy agreed to, but U boy was in Timbuktu on that date as far as making a fight against a girl or any other easy target.

[QueensburyRules]

I would consider having someone like Conte in your camp would give someone access to advanced athlete doping. Some athletes don’t get access to this and try other methods. Especially with more lax drug testing. Some only measures the level of test in the system it deems realistic.

I hated how Mayweather used olympic style drug testing to dodge a Pacquiao fight, especially since half his oponents were cheating, Floyd as well (just to a lesser extent I would think) but olympic style drug testing should be in the sport if we actually want it clean.

- - Do a bowl of jelly consider wif U?

Most of Conte's clients that went to jail were Olympic athletes, Marion Jones preeminent among them. BALCO had em passing Olympic tests. Mosely and Balco Barry were also passing their drug tests, but having made more $$$ than Olympians, they had access to better lawyers and the inside judicial graft that got them off the hook.

Have U ever considered hiring a script reader to screen U responses so as to not appear so incompetent as U do?

I don't need Conte. My prob growing up was too much natural testa that probably wouldn't pass Olympic drug testing, and I'm not alone.