Marciano and his management

[them_apples]

Since recently being called out for bias. I figured a realistic attempt at finding some negatives on Marciano should be done.

I can’t prove it off hand, but we can discuss it.

Theres obviously a pretty good chance Marciano was protected, being a White Italian in the 50s and having enough ability to be championship material. I’m certain he would have been protected quite well, especially against tall mobile and rangy fighters who could capitalize on his slow feet.

and by protected we mean easily avoided fighters that would give him the most trouble. Which they would know, from gym wars.

His slow feet

he’s got short arms, he’s also got short legs. His biggest down fall is most of his height is in his longer torso. This makes him slow of foot and poorly balanced. He constantly has to lean into fighters to avoid being knocked over. Which means they could backup and he falls over. He compensates for his slow feet by crouching low in rythm, obviously something he worked on to compensate. Its also for easy for him to do so, ive never seen anyone do air squats so easily lol. Sort of like how short armed people succeed at bench pressing. Short legged people do well with squats.
He’s kinda built like one of those peanut butter jelly raisin dudes.

It’s sort of interesting though, how everything about Rocky revolves around his character. He’s just an underdog with tremendous heart. His style embodies something someone would have had to make on their own (mostly) through trial and error and just raw effort.
It’s the idea that he gets written off every single time, but through his own effort and understanding he get’s the job done.

on a side note, on the topic of heart. Marcianos heart has always been considered big. Theory, since his build is more torso than limb, being the heart is located in the torso perhaps its very strong and robust in regards to how much blood and other parts of the body need blood under physical stress.

the heart is actually a tangible attribute in addition to the mental aspect. A strong heart can pump blood harder and longer than a weak muscled heart. Effort and stamina are 2 massively underrated attributes.

[billeau2]

Since recently being called out for bias. I figured a realistic attempt at finding some negatives on Marciano should be done.

I can’t prove it off hand, but we can discuss it.

Theres obviously a pretty good chance Marciano was protected, being a White Italian in the 50s and having enough ability to be championship material. I’m certain he would have been protected quite well, especially against tall mobile and rangy fighters who could capitalize on his slow feet.

and by protected we mean easily avoided fighters that would give him the most trouble. Which they would know, from gym wars.

His slow feet

he’s got short arms, he’s also got short legs. His biggest down fall is most of his height is in his longer torso. This makes him slow of foot and poorly balanced. He constantly has to lean into fighters to avoid being knocked over. Which means they could backup and he falls over. He compensates for his slow feet by crouching low in rythm, obviously something he worked on to compensate. Its also for easy for him to do so, ive never seen anyone do air squats so easily lol. Sort of like how short armed people succeed at bench pressing. Short legged people do well with squats.
He’s kinda built like one of those peanut butter jelly raisin dudes.

It’s sort of interesting though, how everything about Rocky revolves around his character. He’s just an underdog with tremendous heart. His style embodies something someone would have had to make on their own (mostly) through trial and error and just raw effort.
It’s the idea that he gets written off every single time, but through his own effort and understanding he get’s the job done.

on a side note, on the topic of heart. Marcianos heart has always been considered big. Theory, since his build is more torso than limb, being the heart is located in the torso perhaps its very strong and robust in regards to how much blood and other parts of the body need blood under physical stress.

the heart is actually a tangible attribute in addition to the mental aspect. A strong heart can pump blood harder and longer than a weak muscled heart. Effort and stamina are 2 massively underrated attributes.

There is a great article on Marciano from Sports illustrated that looks at his foibles. Definitely worth a read. He had a tremendous following. He never paid a bill in his life lol. Ill look for it, I enjoyed the article.

[Ivich]

There is a great article on Marciano from Sports illustrated that looks at his foibles. Definitely worth a read. He had a tremendous following. He never paid a bill in his life lol. Ill look for it, I enjoyed the article.

Marciano was described as "America's Guest," he was miserly to the point of obsessive and carried a gadget to make free calls from public phones.

[Ivich]

Since recently being called out for bias. I figured a realistic attempt at finding some negatives on Marciano should be done.

I can’t prove it off hand, but we can discuss it.

Theres obviously a pretty good chance Marciano was protected, being a White Italian in the 50s and having enough ability to be championship material. I’m certain he would have been protected quite well, especially against tall mobile and rangy fighters who could capitalize on his slow feet.

and by protected we mean easily avoided fighters that would give him the most trouble. Which they would know, from gym wars.

His slow feet

he’s got short arms, he’s also got short legs. His biggest down fall is most of his height is in his longer torso. This makes him slow of foot and poorly balanced. He constantly has to lean into fighters to avoid being knocked over. Which means they could backup and he falls over. He compensates for his slow feet by crouching low in rythm, obviously something he worked on to compensate. Its also for easy for him to do so, ive never seen anyone do air squats so easily lol. Sort of like how short armed people succeed at bench pressing. Short legged people do well with squats.
He’s kinda built like one of those peanut butter jelly raisin dudes.

It’s sort of interesting though, how everything about Rocky revolves around his character. He’s just an underdog with tremendous heart. His style embodies something someone would have had to make on their own (mostly) through trial and error and just raw effort.
It’s the idea that he gets written off every single time, but through his own effort and understanding he get’s the job done.

on a side note, on the topic of heart. Marcianos heart has always been considered big. Theory, since his build is more torso than limb, being the heart is located in the torso perhaps its very strong and robust in regards to how much blood and other parts of the body need blood under physical stress.

the heart is actually a tangible attribute in addition to the mental aspect. A strong heart can pump blood harder and longer than a weak muscled heart. Effort and stamina are 2 massively underrated attributes.

Marciano's manager was the matchmaker for MSG that's a pretty good advantage. Negatives? Outside of boxing ,during the War he was court martialled for mugging a gay man in the UK and spent time in the stockade in both the UK and the US. When his outfit went to France he was in prison.He also did some loansharking after he retired.
Curiously writers often focus on his sex life ,his penchant for hookers and sex toys.The man had denied himself a normal regular sex life whilst he was boxing and understandably decided to make up for lost time when he was no longer a fighter.
Sam Silverman who promoted many of his early fights said that,because of his lack of technique he could often look as bad against an ordinary fighter as a good one.
In his first amateur fight against Henry Lester an unfit Marciano was getting outclassed and reverted to kneeing Lester in the groin
resulting in a dsq.
In answer to the question Rocky boxed against his brother Sonny Marciano on many occasions, but never in official fights, only in sparring and infamously on an exhibition tour, where his brother illegally took on the identity of another amateur fighters, for this Rocky served a one month suspension in all states except NY where he had most early fights.

Rocky Marciano's true amateur record was/is 9-4 (8KO's), never 8-0, 30-0 (according to Sullivan's badly written book), 8-4 .

The confusion over 9-4 vs 8-4 is extra fight not included in his record because fighter Ralph did not show so naturally Rocky won by DQ!


I don't think I've seen an example of a fighter with a stronger will to win that Rocky.Ali in his fights and Frazier in FOTC might have equalled him.I can't imagine Rocky ever seriously considered the possibility of defeat. There's a lot to admire about him and certainly many more positives than negatives .

[QueensburyRules]

- - Back when we was debating Rocky on AOL, there were a cadre of anti-Rockys who would claim Rocky padded out his record with his brother by a half dozen or more fights promulgated by many of the always dubious boxing media who never had a foot they couldn't shoot up then and now.

Rocky did indeed fight exhibitions with his brother for lunch money while an ama and later pro debuted as Rocky Mack to disguise his ama status before returning to win the New England ama title before his official name pro debut. Thus far nobody has wanted strip Rocky in those post depression WW2 years.

[billeau2]

Marciano was described as "America's Guest," he was miserly to the point of obsessive and carried a gadget to make free calls from public phones.

This post is a perfect example of how you state an opinion and then pass it along as a fact... Your ignorance is amusing. In fact, while Rocky was "miserly", as you put it, there is more to the issue. He did not trust any form of payment other than cash. He was obsessed with the need to have cash, to the point where he hid cash places and actually would take substantially less money, often giving a host back a check at an event, for substantially less cash to put in his pocket. And no... im not going to "find a source" you should know where this information is, if you claim to be well read about boxing.

His Obsession was not being miserly, it was the fear of not having enough. And people using "slugs" and the like to make free calls was not exactly gagetry those days... slugs were also used in laundromats.

Was Marciano a good person? I don't know, I suspect he had some issues, we do know he had girls visit him wherever he went, while being a married man... but he was a complex personality and his actions, his behavior had root causes more than just being "miserly" or "selfish." To call him miserly would be like calling Ali "Arrogant."

[billeau2]

- - Back when we was debating Rocky on AOL, there were a cadre of anti-Rockys who would claim Rocky padded out his record with his brother by a half dozen or more fights promulgated by many of the always dubious boxing media who never had a foot they couldn't shoot up then and now.

Rocky did indeed fight exhibitions with his brother for lunch money while an ama and later pro debuted as Rocky Mack to disguise his ama status before returning to win the New England ama title before his official name pro debut. Thus far nobody has wanted strip Rocky in those post depression WW2 years.

Didn't he fight under a few different names? I recall hearing that, but don't know if it is so.

[them_apples]

This post is a perfect example of how you state an opinion and then pass it along as a fact... Your ignorance is amusing. In fact, while Rocky was "miserly", as you put it, there is more to the issue. He did not trust any form of payment other than cash. He was obsessed with the need to have cash, to the point where he hid cash places and actually would take substantially less money, often giving a host back a check at an event, for substantially less cash to put in his pocket. And no... im not going to "find a source" you should know where this information is, if you claim to be well read about boxing.

His Obsession was not being miserly, it was the fear of not having enough. And people using "slugs" and the like to make free calls was not exactly gagetry those days... slugs were also used in laundromats.

Was a good person? I don't know, I suspect he had some issues, we do know he had girls visit him wherever he went, while being a married man... but he was a complex personality and his actions, his behavior had root causes more than just being "miserly" or "selfish." To call him miserly would be like calling Ali "Arrogant."

every fighter or man with status back then was having sex with hookers or mistresses. Its America. And before America, you had nobles and guess what, they did the same thing! Honestly I don’t judge a mans character based on the worlds standards. Many of the plebs pointing fingers would turn around and do the same thing.

If you gave users on this forum punch cards for 22 year old hookers, those invitiations wouldn’t sit on the dresser for too long lol…

in Alis book he had an army of **********s in his camp at all times. For him and his trainers. And when they were done he would have sex with their girls too. Ali was an animal. Having a threeway every night was the norm for Ali even during camp. Even his wife would drop him off at mistresses houses under the guise that he wouldn’t give her the details on his business.

[Ivich]

This post is a perfect example of how you state an opinion and then pass it along as a fact... Your ignorance is amusing. In fact, while Rocky was "miserly", as you put it, there is more to the issue. He did not trust any form of payment other than cash. He was obsessed with the need to have cash, to the point where he hid cash places and actually would take substantially less money, often giving a host back a check at an event, for substantially less cash to put in his pocket. And no... im not going to "find a source" you should know where this information is, if you claim to be well read about boxing.

His Obsession was not being miserly, it was the fear of not having enough. And people using "slugs" and the like to make free calls was not exactly gagetry those days... slugs were also used in laundromats.

Was Marciano a good person? I don't know, I suspect he had some issues, we do know he had girls visit him wherever he went, while being a married man... but he was a complex personality and his actions, his behavior had root causes more than just being "miserly" or "selfish." To call him miserly would be like calling Ali "Arrogant."

Willie Pep a good friend of his said he was a miser and never ever bought a round of drinks.Jimmy Durante named him America's Guest there are loads of quotes from his friends and even his brother Sonny testifying to his phobic dislike of spending money.
He once grabbed the matchmaker and promoter Mickey Duff by the lapels of his jacket because he thought he was being shortchanged.Its known he would turn up for interviews in scruffy old clothes unsuitable for a public appearance and TV companies would fit him out from wardrobe with a new outfit.Duff confirmed this because when they brought him over as a special guest at the Anglo American Sporting Club Duff ended up paying for his suit!
Oh I know where to find sources for my quotes I've two biographies on him,all you've got is your own opinion.which though precious to you is absolutely worthless without sources to back it up. Now do go and do some research there's a good boy.

[Ivich]

every fighter or man with status back then was having sex with hookers or mistresses. Its America. And before America, you had nobles and guess what, they did the same thing! Honestly I don’t judge a mans character based on the worlds standards. Many of the plebs pointing fingers would turn around and do the same thing.

If you gave users on this forum punch cards for 22 year old hookers, those invitiations wouldn’t sit on the dresser for too long lol…

in Alis book he had an army of **********s in his camp at all times. For him and his trainers. And when they were done he would have sex with their girls too. Ali was an animal. Having a threeway every night was the norm for Ali even during camp. Even his wife would drop him off at mistresses houses under the guise that he wouldn’t give her the details on his business.

Ali has what to do with this thread?
I pointed out writers strange pre-occupation with Marciano's sex life .It isn't my interest, and I did cut him slack for it if you took the trouble to read all my post.
I couldnt care less who he ******, male or female as long as they were of legal age. I dont judge him by his sex life and never suggested he was unique in that regard .


So What Exactly Is Your Problem?