Who Were the Black Heavyweight Standouts Who Were Denied Title Shots Between Tunney and Louis' Reign

[Ivich]

Arcel's nemesis was Joe Louis, yet he respected Louis and gave him high praise. He was capable of being objective when speaking about fighters. Wills style of fighting was to grapple, wrestle and clinch. He was considered a dirty fighter as well. DQ'd at least 3 times and should have been disqualified when he hit Firpo on the break and knocked him down. He was strong, and outweighed McVey and Jeannette by a good 30 pounds or more with a 4 - 5" size advantage. Tate actually stood tall and attempted to box, he was limited in that regard and didn't use his size and weight to his best advantage. He also had a tendency to make himself smaller in the ring trying to crouch and duck punches and create movement, he had a wide stance too, he didn't use his height and reach to his best advantage.

Please provide the weights for the Wills fights with McVey and Jeannette ?What fights of Tate have you seen to form this opinion?
Now 6 questions.

[GhostofDempsey]

Please provide the weights for the Wills fights with McVey and Jeannette ?What fights of Tate have you seen to form this opinion?
Now 6 questions.

I've answered your questions, you can keep counting until you run out of fingers and toes, but if you don't like the answer, that's not my problem.

You're trying to ask questions now that are nearly impossible to answer without some degree of speculation. I'm also not investing an hour of research to look up weights. We know the size and weight range in which Wills fought, same for McVey and Jeannette. I've already pointed out that McVey was never great, and many of Wills opponents were considerably smaller men...fights that would never have been sanctioned in any decade since.

Watching Tate spar Dempsey it's easy to see his flaws. He often crouches, ducks, and keeps his legs at a wide stance. Most any trainer would tell you that if you are the taller, bigger fighter you make yourself taller, not smaller. Considering his size he was actually quite agile though, but also an inconsistent fighter.

[Ivich]

I've answered your questions, you can keep counting until you run out of fingers and toes, but if you don't like the answer, that's not my problem.

You're trying to ask questions now that are nearly impossible to answer without some degree of speculation. I'm also not investing an hour of research to look up weights. We know the size and weight range in which Wills fought, same for McVey and Jeannette. I've already pointed out that McVey was never great, and many of Wills opponents were considerably smaller men...fights that would never have been sanctioned in any decade since.

Watching Tate spar Dempsey it's easy to see his flaws. He often crouches, ducks, and keeps his legs at a wide stance. Most any trainer would tell you that if you are the taller, bigger fighter you make yourself taller, not smaller. Considering his size he was actually quite agile though, but also an inconsistent fighter.

I asked you who had a better resume than Wills between July4th 1919 and Dec 1922.No answer Don't bother trying to look up the weights of McVey and Jeannette against Wills because they are not available ,which of course is entirely my point. So your statement that Wills
"outweighed McVey and Jeannette by a good 30 pounds or more" is just a guess! There is no film of Bill Tate in an actual fight so what your estimate of his style is is again ,just another guess ,based on a brief sparring clip with Dempsey who was preparing to fight Willard.

[Anthony342]

Yea, because he was afraid to fight them for the championship.

Fury was Klitzschko's sparring partner. Doesn't mean he was lesser. It means they got together to spar. The Charlos spar with Spence. Who is lesser?


Why the hell would Wills want to be his sparring partner when he was in line for the title?



You didn't give the same answer. You gave NO answer. Who had a more accomplished resume at Heavyweight than Wills at the time.



You keep avoiding answering it.

Yes and Larry Holmes was a sparring partner for Ali. Holmes was still good enough to be heavyweight champ back when that still meant something.

[HOUDINI563]

Wills would not have gotten through the first round with prime Dempsey. Too static of a target, no head movement and a poor inside game. It would have been a massacre.

[travestyny]

I answered you, you just don’t like the answer. Keep asking and I’ll keep answering.

Dempsey selecting Wills as a sparring partner was an indication that he was not at all afraid of him, and actually saw him as a good journeyman who can out in some work. Exactly how Ray Arcel described him too. Watch film on both of them, Dempsey is clearly the better of the two.

Sure, I'll keep asking because you haven't come with one name.


Which heavy had a better resume than Wills at that time?


That's not at all what Dempsey said about Wills. He said he was the only man he ever wanted to fight since becoming champion and that Wills would whip the best of them. Unfortunately, Dempsey didn't have the nerve to find out if that were true. The eye test doesn't substitute for having the nerve to fight. I'm sure you know that.


-----Edit-----

I see that ivich has asked you the same question and he's also saying you didn't answer. So why do you play this game where you claim you answered when it's clear that you didn't? Do you think people don't see through the bs?

[QueensburyRules]

Yes and Larry Holmes was a sparring partner for Ali. Holmes was still good enough to be heavyweight champ back when that still meant something.

- - Best 0-6, 0 KO heavyweight record against champs holding titles won in the ring.

Thanks for the reminder...

[GhostofDempsey]

I asked you who had a better resume than Wills between July4th 1919 and Dec 1922.No answer Don't bother trying to look up the weights of McVey and Jeannette against Wills because they are not available ,which of course is entirely my point. So your statement that Wills
"outweighed McVey and Jeannette by a good 30 pounds or more" is just a guess! There is no film of Bill Tate in an actual fight so what your estimate of his style is is again ,just another guess ,based on a brief sparring clip with Dempsey who was preparing to fight Willard.

You’re trying to hard to play gotcha, which is amateur night tactics. We know that Wills often fight around 220, and McVey and Jeannette around 190.

Tate fought the way he sparred like most other fighters. My assessment is good enough for me, you csn draw your own conclusions as you often do.

[Ivich]

You’re trying to hard to play gotcha, which is amateur night tactics. We know that Wills often fight around 220, and McVey and Jeannette around 190.

Tate fought the way he sparred like most other fighters. My assessment is good enough for me, you csn draw your own conclusions as you often do.

Name one fight when he was prime in which Wills weighed 220lbs FYI McVey weighed 207 lbs when he was 19years old,look up the Johnson fight! and Jeannette scaled 200lb son several occasions.So it seems you don't know what you think you know!
FYI Sparring partners fight they way their employers want them to fight adopting the style required . You have no idea how Wills fought because all you've seen of him is a brief clip against his boss Dempsey.so that's all BS!
Sam McVea
(Samuel E. MacVea)
(Samuel E. McVey)

BORN	May 17 1884; Waelder, Texas
DIED	December 23 1921; New York, New York (Some sources report December 22 1921)
HEIGHT	5-10 1/2
WEIGHT	205-220 lbs

oe Jeannette
(Joseph Jennette)

BORN	August 26 1879; North Bergen, New Jersey
DIED	July 2 1958; Weehawken, New Jersey (Some sources report 1956)
HEIGHT	5-10
WEIGHT	185-205 lbs
MANAGER	Dan McKetrick

[GhostofDempsey]

Name one fight when he was prime in which Wills weighed 220lbs FYI McVey weighed 207 lbs when he was 19years old,look up the Johnson fight! and Jeannette scaled 200lb son several occasions.So it seems you don't know what you think you know!
FYI Sparring partners fight they way their employers want them to fight adopting the style required . You have no idea how Wills fought because all you've seen of him is a brief clip against his boss Dempsey.so that's all BS!
Sam McVea
(Samuel E. MacVea)
(Samuel E. McVey)

BORN	May 17 1884; Waelder, Texas
DIED	December 23 1921; New York, New York (Some sources report December 22 1921)
HEIGHT	5-10 1/2
WEIGHT	205-220 lbs

oe Jeannette
(Joseph Jennette)

BORN	August 26 1879; North Bergen, New Jersey
DIED	July 2 1958; Weehawken, New Jersey (Some sources report 1956)
HEIGHT	5-10
WEIGHT	185-205 lbs
MANAGER	Dan McKetrick

Cyber Boxing Zone says one thing, IBHOF says another (200) for McVey and various other sources also claim different weights for each of them. PBS lists Jeannette at 190, Langford at 167. I have a book that puts Jeannette between 185-203. CBZ has Wills fighting as high as 230. We can do this all day.