Irish Heavyweight Champions (WIP)

[Marchegiano]

No longer a work in progress, I didn't realize I can't edit titles when I made this.





Irish Heavyweight Champions

Peter Corcoran 1771

Dan Donnelly 1811

Jack Langan 1823

Simon Byrne 1830

Samuel O'Rourke 1833

Mick Hayden 1842

Yankee Sullivan 1847

Richard O'Baldwin 1866

James Dillon 1874

Paddy Ryan 1878

John Sullivan 1885

James Corbett 1892

Peter Maher 1890

Con Coughlin 1892

Pat Scully 1895

Tom Sharkey 1895

Jem Roche 1905

Packey Mahoney 1905

Bob Brown 1909

Matthew Curran 1909

Dan Voyles 1912

Packey Mahoney 1913

Jem Roche 1913

Con O'Kelly 1914

Bartly Madden 1916

Jim Coffey 1917

Dave Magill 1923

Gene Tunney 1926

Jack Doyle 1932

James Braddock 1935

Tom Currin 1935

Butcher Howell 1938

Ernie Simmons 1940

Chris Cole 1942

Pat Mulcahy 1942

Paddy O'Sullivan 1943

Martin Thornton 1944

Gerry McDemott 1948

Paddy Slavin 1949

Pat Stapleton 1960

Terry O'Connor 1976

Tommy Kiely 1979

Gordon Ferris 1980

Seamus McDonagh 1991

Kevin McBride 1997

Colin Kenna 2008

Coleman Barrett 2010

Martin Rogan 2010

Tyson Fury 2012

Niall Kennedy 2015

[Willie Pep 229]

The Great White Hype!

Manager: Terry, listen to me: do this for the white race. You may be Irish, but they're almost white.

Terry Conklin: But I'm not Irish.

Manager: But you're white, in boxing that makes you Irish.

[edgarg]

Work in progress because I absolutely know I need to hit the newpaper sources, but before I do that I'll give y'all a chance to chime in and me a chance to be lazy. I mean, if you know a candidate let me know.

That's a great word for this I and wish I used it for other lists. Candidates, you decide if they're champions or not.

Also, if you has a good source for Irish 17 and 1800 papers, I'd appreciate the heads up.







Peter Corcoran 1771

Simon Byrne 1830

Samuel O'Rourke 1833

Yankee Sullivan 1847

Paddy Ryan 1878



I've separated the above from below because my first 5 are a bit more bull**** than the rest but may be acceptable. Depends on how y'all see them.



Peter Maher 1890

Pat Scully 1895

Jem Roche 1905

Bob Brown 1909

Matthew Curran 1909

Dan Voyles 1912

Packey Mahoney 1913

Jem Roche 1913

Con O'Kelly 1914

Dave Magill 1923

Ernie Simmons 1940

Chris Cole 1942

Pat Mulcahy 1942

Paddy O'Sullivan 1943

Martin Thornton 1944

Gerry McDemott 1948

Paddy Slavin 1949

Pat Stapleton 1960

Gordon Ferris 1980

Kevin McBride 1997

Coleman Barrett 2010

Tyson Fury 2012


Back to the BS five

Peter was never an Irish champion because in 1771 there is no Irish champion. he was an English champion. An irishman who held the english title. His moniker is Peter The Irish Champion Corcoran, similar to Daniel The ***ish Champion Mendoza and I always see Danny included as a ***ish champion.

Simon Byrne was the first irish champion as in his title was irish as well but it was given to him just so he could lose to the English champion. It's hard to not call the emerald gem a champion since that's exactly what all his contemporaries call him and Spring was handed a title no one cares to argue against.

Ditto for Sam O'Rourke. He didn't prove he was the best of Ireland or Irishmen but he was given the title, to legitimize an English champion.

Yankee Sullivan makes a good claim for english or american champion any time from the late 1840s to early 1850s. He's about the best around period in that time let alone best Irishman. Again, used to legitimize another champion, this time the American champion.

Corcoran, Byrne, O'Rourke, and Sullivan are suspected of throwing fights including title fights.

Paddy Ryan I don't feel I should need to explain but y'all more than welcome to ask iffen you want me to.

Peter Maher to Tyson Fury is pretty straight forward and clean but for authority that list is actually backed by the BUI, which, if you know body history is really the only body ever by Irish for Irish not under English or American control. So, theirs' is one I respect quite a lot more than most bodies.



I'd very much appreciate where to find Dublin or at least irish papers, any information on anyone else I should have included or should be considered, and any information on anything that might be considered the "irish fancy" if you get my meaning.

Thanks buds

I knew two of them. They were INDEED Irish Champions.. The ones I knew were palookas, 1st rd horizontals. Chris Cole and "The Bowld Martcheen" Thornton. Thornton went over to England swearing he'd kill Bruce Wood****, who laid him flat in the 2nd or 3rd rd, after taking a few wild , missing swings, and then running away.

When I was learning Gaelic in the West of Ireland, some years later I used to stop and chat with him . He'd be leaning at the door of his little thatched cottage, with his rolled up shirtsleeves, smoking his dudeen (and spitting) , little short stemmed white clay pipe. (I tried them myself a couple of times, burned the tongue off me) What an accent, hard to decipher.

Chris Cole, I just knew him to talk for a few minutes to in passing, on my travels. . I'm not sure he ever got to a 2nd round. But he made his great reputation by "beating" the infamous Jack Doyle (once married to Movita) when Doyle, blind drunk as usual, collapsed -by himself I think.

[Marchegiano]

I knew two of them. They were INDEED Irish Champions.. The ones I knew were palookas, 1st rd horizontals. Chris Cole and "The Bowld Martcheen" Thornton. Thornton went over to England swearing he'd kill Bruce Wood****, who laid him flat in the 2nd or 3rd rd, after taking a few wild , missing swings, and then running away.

When I was learning Gaelic in the West of Ireland, some years later I used to stop and chat with him . He'd be leaning at the door of his little thatched cottage, with his rolled up shirtsleeves, smoking his dudeen (and spitting) , little short stemmed white clay pipe. (I tried them myself a couple of times, burned the tongue off me) What an accent, hard to decipher.

Chris Cole, I just knew him to talk for a few minutes to in passing, on my travels. . I'm not sure he ever got to a 2nd round. But he made his great reputation by "beating" the infamous Jack Doyle (once married to Movita) when Doyle, blind drunk as usual, collapsed -by himself I think.

Excellent stories bud, thanks.

[Willow The Wisp]

Hello again Marchegiano.

This is another fine thread on your part. I want you to know how much I appreciate the quality of your dialog. It is the kind of thing I'd hoped to find visiting here.
This is information I have, but I have NOT published it, and it should NOT be taken as Gospel, a challenge or a correction. This list has never passed scholarly rigors and I present this simply for your use and amusement, and it is nearly identical to your post, I see. The BUI Irish Title is the easy part. Qualifying some of the other claims, as you allude to, is more difficult.
Naturally, the omission of legendary Dan Donnelly would catch anyone's eye, even if authenticating a title claim and determination of what constitutes a legitimate claim comes into play. The powerful winds of history might certainly have the last word on that one.

The Irish Heavyweight championship
Peter Corcoran b. 1740 Kildare Claim 1771 - 1776
Dan Donnelly b. 1788 Dublin Claim 1811 - 1819
Simon Byrne b. 1806 Ireland. Claim 1830
Samuel O'Rourke b. 1809 Tullamore Claim 1833
Yankee Sullivan b. 1811 Cork Claim 1847
Paddy Ryan b. 1851 Thurles, Tipperary Claim 1878
Peter Maher b. 1869 Kilbannon. Claim 1890
Con Coughlin. b. 1870 Limerick Claim 1892
Pat Scully b. 1875 Dublin. Claim 1895
Tom Sharkey b. 1873 Dundalk. Claim 1895
Jem Roche b. 1878 Wexford. Claim 1905
Packey Mahoney b. 1885 Cork Claim 1905
Bob Brown. B. 1886. Belfast. Claim 1909
P.O. Matthew Curran. B. 1878. Wexford. Claim 1909
Private Dan Voyles b. 1881 Belfast. Claim 1912
Packey Mahoney b. 1885 Cork. Claim 1913
Jem Roche b. 1878 Wexford. Claim 1913
Con O'Kelly. B. 1894 Gloun. Claim 1914
Bartly Madden. B. 1890 Dublin. Claim 1916
Jim Coffey b. 1891 Roscommon. Claim 1917
Dave Magill. B. 1894. Cairncastle. Claim 1923
Jack Doyle b. 1913 Cobh Claim 1932
Tom Currin b. 1914 Dublin Claim 1935
Butcher Howell b. 1911 Cork Claim 1938
Ernie Simmons b. 1913 Dublin Claim 1940
Con Cole b. 1918 Mullingar Claim 1942
Pat Mulcahy b. 1918 Cork Claim 1942
Paddy O'Sullivan b. 1920 Mourneabbey Claim 1943
Martin Thornton b. 1914 Spiddal Claim 1944
Gerry McDemott b. 1925 Scrren Claim 1948
Paddy Slavin b. 1927 Omagh, Uslster Claim 1949
Pat Stapleton b. 1939 Portlaois Claim 1960
Terry O'Connor b. 1955 Birmingham, England Claim 1976
Tommy Kiely b. 1955 Brighton, England Claim 1979
Gordon Ferris b. 1958 Enniskillen Claim 1980
Seamus McDonagh b. 1965 Enfield, Meath. Claim 1991
Kevin McBride b. 1973 Clones Claim 1997
Colin Kenna b. 1976. Dublin Claim 2008
Coleman Barrett b. 1982 Galway Claim 2010
Martin Rogan b. 1975 Belfast Claim 2010
Tyson Fury b. 1988 Manchester, England Claim 2012
Niall Kennedy b. 1993 Gorey Claim 2015

Fact: Jack Doyle of Cobh was a quite amazing individual; prodigious power, movie star looks (if not acting chops); an adoring public, a Hollywood story, a legitimate world class tenor voice and a typically sad ending. His claim to an actual “Irish Heavyweight Title” however, is likely fiction.

Bonus fact: In 1942 Con Cole blew away Jim Cully for the BUI title. Cully was 7'2" tall! A legitimate giant.

The Dublin Journal and Dublin Evening Post were published in the early decades of Irish pugilism and I believe that both Peter Corcoran of Kildare and Dan Donnelly of Dublin are mentioned in those real time, if memory serves me; but as my research was conducted some years ago I am neither sure of that nor certain if these publications were the ones used that were happily, carefully archived.
I'll poke around and see what I can dig up. Meanwhile, the Irish News Archive is your friend; and The British Newspaper Archive (BNA) also hosts many Irish titles for a cost of £12.95 /Mo.

[markusmod]

Hello again Marchegiano.

This is another fine thread on your part. I want you to know how much I appreciate the quality of your dialog. It is the kind of thing I'd hoped to find visiting here.
This is information I have, but I have NOT published it, and it should NOT be taken as Gospel, a challenge or a correction. This list has never passed scholarly rigors and I present this simply for your use and amusement, and it is nearly identical to your post, I see. The BUI Irish Title is the easy part. Qualifying some of the other claims, as you allude to, is more difficult.
Naturally, the omission of legendary Dan Donnelly would catch anyone's eye, even if authenticating a title claim and determination of what constitutes a legitimate claim comes into play. The powerful winds of history might certainly have the last word on that one.

The Irish Heavyweight championship
Peter Corcoran b. 1740 Kildare Claim 1771 - 1776
Dan Donnelly b. 1788 Dublin Claim 1811 - 1819
Simon Byrne b. 1806 Ireland. Claim 1830
Samuel O'Rourke b. 1809 Tullamore Claim 1833
Yankee Sullivan b. 1811 Cork Claim 1847
Paddy Ryan b. 1851 Thurles, Tipperary Claim 1878
Peter Maher b. 1869 Kilbannon. Claim 1890
Con Coughlin. b. 1870 Limerick Claim 1892
Pat Scully b. 1875 Dublin. Claim 1895
Tom Sharkey b. 1873 Dundalk. Claim 1895
Jem Roche b. 1878 Wexford. Claim 1905
Packey Mahoney b. 1885 Cork Claim 1905
Bob Brown. B. 1886. Belfast. Claim 1909
P.O. Matthew Curran. B. 1878. Wexford. Claim 1909
Private Dan Voyles b. 1881 Belfast. Claim 1912
Packey Mahoney b. 1885 Cork. Claim 1913
Jem Roche b. 1878 Wexford. Claim 1913
Con O'Kelly. B. 1894 Gloun. Claim 1914
Bartly Madden. B. 1890 Dublin. Claim 1916
Jim Coffey b. 1891 Roscommon. Claim 1917
Dave Magill. B. 1894. Cairncastle. Claim 1923
Jack Doyle b. 1913 Cobh Claim 1932
Tom Currin b. 1914 Dublin Claim 1935
Butcher Howell b. 1911 Cork Claim 1938
Ernie Simmons b. 1913 Dublin Claim 1940
Con Cole b. 1918 Mullingar Claim 1942
Pat Mulcahy b. 1918 Cork Claim 1942
Paddy O'Sullivan b. 1920 Mourneabbey Claim 1943
Martin Thornton b. 1914 Spiddal Claim 1944
Gerry McDemott b. 1925 Scrren Claim 1948
Paddy Slavin b. 1927 Omagh, Uslster Claim 1949
Pat Stapleton b. 1939 Portlaois Claim 1960
Terry O'Connor b. 1955 Birmingham, England Claim 1976
Tommy Kiely b. 1955 Brighton, England Claim 1979
Gordon Ferris b. 1958 Enniskillen Claim 1980
Seamus McDonagh b. 1965 Enfield, Meath. Claim 1991
Kevin McBride b. 1973 Clones Claim 1997
Colin Kenna b. 1976. Dublin Claim 2008
Coleman Barrett b. 1982 Galway Claim 2010
Martin Rogan b. 1975 Belfast Claim 2010
Tyson Fury b. 1988 Manchester, England Claim 2012
Niall Kennedy b. 1993 Gorey Claim 2015

Fact: Jack Doyle of Cobh was a quite amazing individual; prodigious power, movie star looks (if not acting chops); an adoring public, a Hollywood story, a legitimate world class tenor voice and a typically sad ending. His claim to an actual “Irish Heavyweight Title” however, is likely fiction.

Bonus fact: In 1942 Con Cole blew away Jim Cully for the BUI title. Cully was 7'2" tall! A legitimate giant.

The Dublin Journal and Dublin Evening Post were published in the early decades of Irish pugilism and I believe that both Peter Corcoran of Kildare and Dan Donnelly of Dublin are mentioned in those real time, if memory serves me; but as my research was conducted some years ago I am neither sure of that nor certain if these publications were the ones used that were happily, carefully archived.
I'll poke around and see what I can dig up. Meanwhile, the Irish News Archive is your friend; and The British Newspaper Archive (BNA) also hosts many Irish titles for a cost of £12.95 /Mo.

is Fury the best of the bunch?

[Willow The Wisp]

Yup. Yankee Sullivan, Paddy Ryan, Peter Maher and Sailor Tom Sharkey would also be Hall of Fame top shelf level.

[Willow The Wisp]

And of course the first two; the founders who crossed over and beat their English rivals.

[Marchegiano]

Hello again Marchegiano.

This is another fine thread on your part. I want you to know how much I appreciate the quality of your dialog. It is the kind of thing I'd hoped to find visiting here.
This is information I have, but I have NOT published it, and it should NOT be taken as Gospel, a challenge or a correction. This list has never passed scholarly rigors and I present this simply for your use and amusement, and it is nearly identical to your post, I see. The BUI Irish Title is the easy part. Qualifying some of the other claims, as you allude to, is more difficult.
Naturally, the omission of legendary Dan Donnelly would catch anyone's eye, even if authenticating a title claim and determination of what constitutes a legitimate claim comes into play. The powerful winds of history might certainly have the last word on that one.

The Irish Heavyweight championship

1. Peter Corcoran b. 1740 Kildare Claim 1771 - 1776
2. Dan Donnelly b. 1788 Dublin Claim 1811 - 1819
3. Simon Byrne b. 1806 Ireland. Claim 1830
4. Samuel O'Rourke b. 1809 Tullamore Claim 1833
5. Yankee Sullivan b. 1811 Cork Claim 1847
6. Paddy Ryan b. 1851 Thurles, Tipperary Claim 1878
7. Peter Maher b. 1869 Kilbannon. Claim 1890
8. Con Coughlin. b. 1870 Limerick Claim 1892
9. Pat Scully b. 1875 Dublin. Claim 1895
10. Tom Sharkey b. 1873 Dundalk. Claim 1895
11. Jem Roche b. 1878 Wexford. Claim 1905
12. Packey Mahoney b. 1885 Cork Claim 1905
13. Bob Brown. B. 1886. Belfast. Claim 1909
14. P.O. Matthew Curran. B. 1878. Wexford. Claim 1909
15. Private Dan Voyles b. 1881 Belfast. Claim 1912
16. Packey Mahoney b. 1885 Cork. Claim 1913
17. Jem Roche b. 1878 Wexford. Claim 1913
18. Con O'Kelly. B. 1894 Gloun. Claim 1914
19. Bartly Madden. B. 1890 Dublin. Claim 1916
20. Jim Coffey b. 1891 Roscommon. Claim 1917
21. Dave Magill. B. 1894. Cairncastle. Claim 1923
22. Jack Doyle b. 1913 Cobh Claim 1932
23. Tom Currin b. 1914 Dublin Claim 1935
24. Butcher Howell b. 1911 Cork Claim 1938
25. Ernie Simmons b. 1913 Dublin Claim 1940
26. Con Cole b. 1918 Mullingar Claim 1942
27. Pat Mulcahy b. 1918 Cork Claim 1942
28. Paddy O'Sullivan b. 1920 Mourneabbey Claim 1943
29. Martin Thornton b. 1914 Spiddal Claim 1944
30. Gerry McDemott b. 1925 Scrren Claim 1948
31. Paddy Slavin b. 1927 Omagh, Uslster Claim 1949
32. Pat Stapleton b. 1939 Portlaois Claim 1960
33. Terry O'Connor b. 1955 Birmingham, England Claim 1976
34. Tommy Kiely b. 1955 Brighton, England Claim 1979
35. Gordon Ferris b. 1958 Enniskillen Claim 1980
36. Seamus McDonagh b. 1965 Enfield, Meath. Claim 1991
37. Kevin McBride b. 1973 Clones Claim 1997
38. Colin Kenna b. 1976. Dublin Claim 2008
39. Coleman Barrett b. 1982 Galway Claim 2010
40. Martin Rogan b. 1975 Belfast Claim 2010
41. Tyson Fury b. 1988 Manchester, England Claim 2012
42. Niall Kennedy b. 1993 Gorey Claim 2015

Fact: Jack Doyle of Cobh was a quite amazing individual; prodigious power, movie star looks (if not acting chops); an adoring public, a Hollywood story, a legitimate world class tenor voice and a typically sad ending. His claim to an actual “Irish Heavyweight Title” however, is likely fiction.

Bonus fact: In 1942 Con Cole blew away Jim Cully for the BUI title. Cully was 7'2" tall! A legitimate giant.

The Dublin Journal and Dublin Evening Post were published in the early decades of Irish pugilism and I believe that both Peter Corcoran of Kildare and Dan Donnelly of Dublin are mentioned in those real time, if memory serves me; but as my research was conducted some years ago I am neither sure of that nor certain if these publications were the ones used that were happily, carefully archived.
I'll poke around and see what I can dig up. Meanwhile, the Irish News Archive is your friend; and The British Newspaper Archive (BNA) also hosts many Irish titles for a cost of £12.95 /Mo.

Yeah bud! That's the business right there! Thank you.

I'm just gonna throw them in a numbered list for now because I am too lazy to count them

There's a few names here I don't think I've ever heard prior, so that'll be real fun learning about them.

Tom Sharkey I feel like a dummy for having left off

Gonna hit the BNA first because I'm hoping to two-birds-one-stone it and get some information on 1890's English Cruiserweight.

Thanks a bunch bud, you killed it, this is exactly what I was looking for!

[Willie Pep 229]

And of course the first two; the founders who crossed over and beat their English rivals.

OK this is going to be messy.

If I am not mistaken while in America, Yankee Sullivan fought with the (Protestant) Nativists, often fighting against Irish opponents.

It has to do with Sullivan's choice of using the moniker 'Yankee.'

After Yankee Sullivan bested the American Irish fighter John Morrissey, but was DQ, Bill Poole (The Butcher; Gangs of New York) trird to avenge Sullivan's lost by fighting Morrissey himself

That fight ended undecided and in a brawl. Several weeks later a gang of Irish attacked Poole giving him a terrific beating, setting off the third of the four major Nativists vs. Irish gang fights (this one on July 4th, 1857.)

The Nativists (The Know Nothings or The Star Spangled Banner American Party) had used the name 'Yankee' when referring to themselves as a way to denote themselves as 'real Americans,' a slight against the recent Irish immigrants who they felt where interlopers because their ancestors didn't help free the country from Bristh rule (The American Revolution).

I am having a hard time parsing it out, but I believe once in America Sullivan sided with the Nativists and took the moniker Yankee as a symbol of his relationship with the Protestant Nativists.

In 1857 (1856 election) when the new ********** party gained control of New York State (Albany) they sent in the State Militia (NY National Guard) to seize control of the City, arresting the Tammny Hall mayor for larceny and locked him up.

The Irish had supported the ********ic mayor.

Earlier in the 1854 city elections Tammany Hall had gained control of the City with the help of the Irish gangs (they stole the election fair and square). Tammany then had to pay back the Irish with patronage (good City government jobs) for helping them win the eceltion and did so by forming the Irish street gangs into a legal (paid) police force called the City Police.

In response Albany (now under ********** control; had by the 1856 election absorbed the Know Nothings into their party) then turned the Nativist/********** controlled State Militia into the Metropolitian Police when they seized control of the city.

Eventually, sparked by the attack on Butcher Poole the 1857 riot was primarily a police riot as the Irish City Police went at it with the Nativist Metropolitan Police (or actually the ********** controlled State militia).

The **********s won control of the City and the Irish controlled City Police were officially disbanded.

It was at this time that the patriotic term Yankee first became deogretory as the Irish refused to acknowledge the Metro Police as legitimate and referred to them as 'Yankees.'

'Yankee' then came to mean to the Irish, "********** bullies" who were trying to force their way of life onto the Catholic immigrants.

Thus once the **********s gained control of the White House (Lincoln) in 1861 the term Yankee was then picked up by the South as a deogretory term as well, once again denoting, in their minds, ********** bullies who were trying to impose their way of life on the South this time. Thus began the Southern deogretory use of the term Yankee.

General Washington (Rev War) had called for all the States to dress their Militias (and thus the Continental Army) in blue to counter the red of the British, thus the New York State Militia (in 1857) when it took control of the City away from Tammany Hall was wearing dark blue uniforms.

This blue uniform distinguished them from the Irish controlled City Police. It is why even today the New York Metropolitan Police force wears the dark blue uniform resembling the Yankee blue blouse of the Civil War.

With all that said I am suspious, I think maybe Yankee Sullivan was not popular in America with the Irish, and I actually think they wouldn't like it much if you referred to Yankee Sullivan as an Irish champion. Their guy was Morrissey.

Sullivan's choice of the nickname Yankee is an odd choice for an Irishman at that time, it belonged to the Nativists.


I think!

[EDIT] SORRY THE POOLE - MORRISSEY BRAWL TOOK PLACE IN 1855 and Poole was eventually shot dead by Morrissey supporters not just beaten. The third riot then took place a yesr and a half later after the **********s got control of Albany. The riot did take place on 4th when everyone involved was good and drunk.