Bad precedent?

[JAB5239]

The WBC has granted Canelo Alverez permission to fight for their Cruiserweight title. Does this set a bad precedent? Alvarez is no doubt a great fighter and a star, but he is leapfrogging guys who have worked their way up the Cruiserweight ladder. Is this a show of favoritism in your opinion? To me it seems like the WBC is trying to give him another title instead of making him earn the right. This happened when he fought Kovelov instead of Beterbiev at 175 with no previous fights there. How often has this happened in history and do you agree with this practice? Guys like Greb, Conn, Charles, and Foster all had fights in heavier divisions before being given either their shot or acceptance at a new weight. Is a new page in history being turned or is this just more ABC org home cooking?

[Willie Pep 229]

We, you and I are always at odds over this same issue.

It is 'prize fighting' not a professional boxing league no matter how much the scationing bodied and the apologists would like it to be.

If the money fight is with this guy at Cruiserweight than that's the fight you make.

These guys are independent entrepreneurs selling their fights. Canelo didn't sign up for any league and no one has any obligation to anyone.

Everyone is just an independent looking for the best fight he can get. The scantioning bodies are just one avenue to getting those fights. Fan appeal is another. The scantioning bodies should never stand in the way of a great fight because of 'fairness.' I.e. Their ranking system, which probably isn't fair to begin with.

[Flickergrab98]

I honestly don’t want Canelo fighting at Cruiserweight anyway. He doesn’t need to. He should instead focus on carving out a legacy as the greatest Super Middleweight in boxing history. Plus what’s going to happen if he suddenly goes up to Cruiserweight and then decides he wants to go back down to defend his Super Middleweight crown? How much will that take out of him? Will it be like Roy Jones Jr.’s lackluster performance against Tarver after coming back down from heavyweight?

I know none of what I said addresses the actual question the original poster was raising, but it still concerns me.

[JAB5239]

We, you and I are always at odds over this same issue.

It is 'prize fighting' not a professional boxing league no matter how much the scationing bodied and the apologists would like it to be.

If the money fight is with this guy at Cruiserweight than that's the fight you make.

These guys are independent entrepreneurs selling their fights. Canelo didn't sign up for any league and no one has any obligation to anyone.

Everyone is just an independent looking for the best fight he can get. The scantioning bodies are just one avenue to getting those fights. Fan appeal is another. The scantioning bodies should never stand in the way of a great fight because of 'fairness.' I.e. Their ranking system, which probably isn't fair to begin with.

So you think it would be fine if say Jake Paul was given a title fight?

Yes it's prize fighting. The prize is the championship. You can be popular and earn a ton of money without actually being a good fighter. See Jake Paul. But to work your way up the ladder and win that championship, to me that is the real prize in prize fighting. Everyone gets paid in professional boxing. Some more than others. Very few can climb there way to the top to earn that prize.

Basically what I'm saying is championship fights should be based on achievement and not popularity.

[JAB5239]

What gives one fighter the right to petition to jump weights and fight for a championship in a division he's never fought, but not all fighters? Should Andy Lee have been granted permission to fight at heavyweight if he so desired at the time because he sparred with Wlad?

[Marchegiano]

The WBC has granted Canelo Alverez permission to fight for their Cruiserweight title. Does this set a bad precedent? Alvarez is no doubt a great fighter and a star, but he is leapfrogging guys who have worked their way up the Cruiserweight ladder. Is this a show of favoritism in your opinion? To me it seems like the WBC is trying to give him another title instead of making him earn the right. This happened when he fought Kovelov instead of Beterbiev at 175 with no previous fights there. How often has this happened in history and do you agree with this practice? Guys like Greb, Conn, Charles, and Foster all had fights in heavier divisions before being given either their shot or acceptance at a new weight. Is a new page in history being turned or is this just more ABC org home cooking?

Monroe got the Jeffries fight for looking decent in an exhibition and the papers making a big deal of it.

Just saying, the star issue isn't really a body thing.

[JAB5239]

Monroe got the Jeffries fight for looking decent in an exhibition and the papers making a big deal of it.

Just saying, the star issue isn't really a body thing.

I don't agree with that either. But at least Monroe had beaten other heavyweights beforehand.

I'm curious as to when the WBC decided to drop its Cruiserweight limit back down to 190. Seems a bit peculiar to me but I don't know the details. There was the same amount of weight (given a pound) between 175 to 200 as there is between the 200lb Cruiser limit to the new 224lb bridgerweight limit. Just seems odd to me.

[GhostofDempsey]

It allows sanctioning bodies to enable cherry-picking, and rankings get tossed to the side to accommodate the money fighter. The flip side of this is when an undeserving no-hoper is given a shot at a title so the money fighter can pad his record and remain champion. All the sanctioning bodies are corrupt to some extent.

[Willie Pep 229]

So you think it would be fine if say Jake Paul was given a title fight?

Yes it's prize fighting. The prize is the championship. You can be popular and earn a ton of money without actually being a good fighter. See Jake Paul. But to work your way up the ladder and win that championship, to me that is the real prize in prize fighting. Everyone gets paid in professional boxing. Some more than others. Very few can climb there way to the top to earn that prize.

Basically what I'm saying championship fights should be based on achievement and not popularity.

Yes of course they should . . . But we are talking about Canelo not Jake Paul.

Canelo has achieved . . . You know that . . . You don't like the fact that a scantioning body is recognizing Canelo instead of other CW contenders, but truth is, even on this forum, most
don't know the names of any of the CW champions without looking them up, never mind who the contenders are.

No, I agree, a champion shouldn't fight anyone . . . But any fight involving Canelo is not a farce.

The bottom line is 'popularity' is what drives the fight game, not 'achievement' (especially when that 'achievement' is scantioned by a corrupt scantioning body.)

You know me well enough now to know that I don't usually say the following . . .

But I am correct you're not, here's why . . .

I am 'right' NOT because my logic is better than yours; NOT because my argument is better than yours; but because popularity has always trumped achievement, from the BK days right up to tomorrow and the day after.

The biggest problem with your justice/achievement argument is that you have no measurement for achievement except the scantioning bodies ratings and I know you know they are corrupt as well.

The bottom line is the bottom line. Two CWs square off and no one will buy a PPV ticket. Canelo fights a CW and everyone makes money.

Is it not unjust for you to interfere with that?

[JAB5239]

Yes of course they should . . . But we are talking about Canelo not Jake Paul.

What if we were talking about Tiger Woods? My point is you open the door for all sorts of ridiculousness. This is still a sport, not the WWE.

Canelo has achieved . . . You know that . . . You don't like the cantioning body is recognizing Canelo instead of other CW contenders, but truth is, even on this forum, most
don't know the names of any of the CW champions without looking them up, never mind who the contenders are.

Canelo has achieved, but not at Cruiserweight. And why not take on Briedis?

No, I agree, a champion shouldn't fight anyone . . . But any fight involving Canelo is not a farce.

I'm not saying it's a farce. It's more of a cherry pick based on popularity instead of achievement. Sports should be about the best facing the best, especially in a so called championship fight.

The bottom line is 'popularity' is what drives the fight game, not 'achievement' (especially when that 'achievement' is scantioned by a corrupt scantioning body.)

Than it's not really a sport anymore, it's sports entertainment.

You know me well enough now to know that I don't usually say the following . . .

But I am correct you're not, here's why . . .

I am 'right' NOT because my logic is better than yours; NOT because my argument is better than yours; but because popularity has always trumped achievement, from the BK days right up to tomorrow and the day after.

The biggest problem with your justice/achievement argument is that you have no measurement for achievement except the scantioning bodies ratings and I know you know they are corrupt as well.

The bottom line is the bottom line. Two CWs square off and no one will buy a PPV ticket. Canelo fights a CW and everyone makes money.

Is it not unjust for you to interfere with that

If this were true Wills would have got his fight with Dempsey as he was the most popular heavyweight besides Dempsey for a number of years.

Of course they're corrupt, but letting anyone with name recognition fight is equally as bad. In my opinion, mine only, it takes away from the integrity of the sport.

Cruiserweights may not have the name recognition, but at least they have built their resumes against other top fighters in their division. Hell, I would even have a problem if Canelo had faced Beterbiev after beating Kovalov and moved up.

I'm not interfering, I'm coversating friend. I'm fine with you disagreeing with me as you lay out reasons why in respectful approach knowing we are on polar opposites concerning this particular topic.