Time to dump the belts and switch to rings.

[evets]

Think of a belt like a ring for the waist.

[The Old LefHook]

Championship dentures? Make that a gold grill, or an iron pyrite one anyway. I think Sulaiman the younger can pull that off.

[Willie Pep 229]

Championship dentures? Make that a gold grill, or an iron pyrite one anyway. I think Sulaiman the younger can pull that off.

Once again I say follow the NFL lead . . . The Lombardi Trophy ---> The Foreman Grill . . .

Fighters can hold it over their head like the NHL Trophy (I have no clue what that's called.)

But back on 1976 I did once have a Canadian (defense man) named Murray Wilson forearm off a bar stool in Montreal. I had in conversation unwittingly insulted his home town. (Which if you have ever seen some of these small towns in Canada, they deserve to be insulted.)

[Marchegiano]

Two principle belts of Sullivan's relevant to this convo, but I'm pretty sure he had more in total.

The first belt comes from the Police Gazette in 1884. The PG made a belt for Kilrain, the public was so offended by the PG trying to crown an alternative champion they created the second belt, the famous belt with the diamonds.

When Sullivan beat Kilrain he acquired the PG belt as well and named the two belts the "dog collar belt" and the "Boston belt" the dog collar being the PG's belt.

When Corbett beat Sully, Sullivan handed over the dog collar belt and kept his boston belt.

Corbett loved the vaudeville circuit and lauding his belt around America. In 1893 he left is displayed in a shop window where it was stolen and never recovered.

Belting the Champions - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com

The Maher bit was probably my own misinterpretation. The best I found, admittedly I've not cracked a book yet, was a quote from Corbett:

“On this spot, I give you the championship, because I know you can protect it. I shall never fight again.”

Peter Maher: An Irish Tribute - The Grueling Truth

He probably meant the title, but from memory in Matt Dunnellon's book there's a bit were the two walk and talk in a train station and Maher has a belt on his shoulder. So maybe Corbett had a belt made after the Dog Collar but from Sullivan to Corbett there was actually a hand off and that belt was promptly stolen.

He beats Sully in 92 and Mitchell in 94. 93 he lost the belt, so dude literally never got to show off in the ring with his belt....kinda sad, but that's what you get leaving your **** on display in the 1890s I guess.



Belts-768x537.jpg

Cintur%25C3%25B3n%2Bde%2Bcampe%25C3%25B3n%2BJohn%2BL.%2BSullivan.jpg

[Anthony342]

You know DeeMoney... I see the same thing perpetually with rank in the martial arts... When you have all these organizations it really dilutes the value of a belt...and its almost pathetic when they try to make the belts nicer looking... It shows they are aware and do not care (a-pathetic= pathetic). The real value of the belt is what it stands for... it could be made out of paper mache!

Rank inflation is what happens in many martial arts and its the same crap. Suddenly you see fat middle aged men walking around with 10th degree Black Belts, and then some schmo gets a dan ranks above a tenth degree which isn't even valid... after a 10th you have to create your own system.

The rank goes up indirect proportion to the quality and skills going down. credit to the Gracies for calling a Black Belt what it should be...that is the way I came up as well... Now they call a black belt a 7th to 10th dan its just insane...

Don't they also eventually promote to red belt? And you can wear a clip on tie if you don't like it going around your neck. I prefer the updated zipper ties you don't have to tie. They just go around your neck pre tied and you zip them up with both hands.

[Anthony342]

Ok - but what the NFL does is use the Lombardi Trophy in place of the belt. It serves the purpose you suggest would be lost, not the rings but the trophy is passed on.

I am now changing my mine and thinking losing the belt may be too dramatic a loss marketing wise . . . You guys are convincing me. . . But I think fighters/scantioning bodies should add in a ring tradition with each ring representing a particular titled held just like the belts. The bodies can afford both.

Yeah, let them wear the belts in the ring, but a ring outside of it. I remember Tyson mentioning this when he was heavyweight champion to one of the 1987 Twins I believe that he had just met, saying it would be easier to carry around a ring in public. I've noticed in recent years people also having custom championship belts made, but that might have more to do with the popularity of MMA and pro wrestling. Usually from websites, but I guess also local companies, people get them made for everything from bowling league wins to fantasy football/baseball competitions to all kinds of different local sports leagues. I've even seen where pro sports teams would have either custom belts made when they won a championship or even had pro wrestling title belts to go with their championship rings, usually from WWE.

Undisputed Belts and Leather By Dan are good sites for custom made belts, by the way.

[Anthony342]

Exchanging the ring!? Listen if I am exchanging rings with someone... they better love me madly, be a madona in public and whore in the bedroom...

I would then hope you don't love her as she's walking out the door.

[Anthony342]

My bad, I took it as pertains to the first modern belt, not limited to.

Yeah all I'm saying is by the time Sullivan had a belt boxing was already used to and expected that specific belt to always be his.

That said If we cheat "champion" just a bit, I believe Corbett gave his belt to Maher actually. When I get a bit of time I'll try to find something on it, but I'm pretty sure when Maher won Corbett's vacant title Corbett handed Maher his belt.

Once champions lose belts or retire, don't they get their own belt awarded to them saying when they won the belt and another date saying when their title reign ended?

[Willie Pep 229]

Two principle belts of Sullivan's relevant to this convo, but I'm pretty sure he had more in total.

The first belt comes from the Police Gazette in 1884. The PG made a belt for Kilrain, the public was so offended by the PG trying to crown an alternative champion they created the second belt, the famous belt with the diamonds.

When Sullivan beat Kilrain he acquired the PG belt as well and named the two belts the "dog collar belt" and the "Boston belt" the dog collar being the PG's belt.

When Corbett beat Sully, Sullivan handed over the dog collar belt and kept his boston belt.

Corbett loved the vaudeville circuit and lauding his belt around America. In 1893 he left is displayed in a shop window where it was stolen and never recovered.

Belting the Champions - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com

The Maher bit was probably my own misinterpretation. The best I found, admittedly I've not cracked a book yet, was a quote from Corbett:

“On this spot, I give you the championship, because I know you can protect it. I shall never fight again.”

Peter Maher: An Irish Tribute - The Grueling Truth

He probably meant the title, but from memory in Matt Dunnellon's book there's a bit were the two walk and talk in a train station and Maher has a belt on his shoulder. So maybe Corbett had a belt made after the Dog Collar but from Sullivan to Corbett there was actually a hand off and that belt was promptly stolen.

He beats Sully in 92 and Mitchell in 94. 93 he lost the belt, so dude literally never got to show off in the ring with his belt....kinda sad, but that's what you get leaving your **** on display in the 1890s I guess.



Belts-768x537.jpg

Cintur%25C3%25B3n%2Bde%2Bcampe%25C3%25B3n%2BJohn%2BL.%2BSullivan.jpg

Great stuff thanks - so the dog collar belt got handed down (for a short while).

I remember reading befire about Boston and the dog belt but great detail.

[Marchegiano]

Once champions lose belts or retire, don't they get their own belt awarded to them saying when they won the belt and another date saying when their title reign ended?

I reckon so now but can't say for the earlier stuff. As you can see there are no dates for John L losing. Would be interesting to know when and how that kicked off too.