Is Duran the greatest fighter still alive today?

[ShoulderRoll]

Put aside my bad taste in humor and address the point regarding whether Pac was stalling or actually afraid of a repeated bad event. That's the issue I was addressing.

Floyd agreed to the fight and sent over a contract in 2009. Pacquiao ruined it because he was afraid of stricter drug testing, yet years later started demanding that his opponents do stricter drug testing.

In any event Floyd beat him and handily whipped Pacquiao's nemesis Juan Manuel Marquez as well. Mayweather was the best fighter of that era.

[them_apples]

Manny actually agreed to random testing up 30 days before the fight, as early as late 2009.

1. Late May-July 2010: 2nd round of Pacquiao vs. Mayweather talks begin. This time, Pacquiao softens up on his Olympic style drug testing stance and agrees to go all the way up to 7 days before the fight (source: Michael Koncz, Pacquiao-Margarito 24/7, Ep. 1).
2. July 17, 2010: With a deadline imposed on Mayweather by Bob Arum (even making a ticker-time deadline on his website, toprank.com), Mayweather fails to respond and the fight is off again. Mayweather elected to take a long layoff until Sept. 2011. Pacquiao eventually agreed to fight Antonio Margarito which he won in emphatic fashion by becoming the first 8 division champion in boxing history.
3. December 2010/Early-Mid 2011: With Mayweather electing to continue his long layoff and Pacquiao wishing to remain active, Pacquiao chooses to fight Shane Mosley in May 2011 while Mayweather has numerous run-ins with the law (one of which is why he was sentenced to jail).
4. Late May-June 2011: With Mayweather ready to go back in to the ring, but not ready to fight Pacquiao, he tweets that he has chosen to take on Victor Ortiz on Sept. 17, 2011, a young, strong southpaw, in preparation to take on Pacquiao immediately afterwards.
5. June-July 2011: With Mayweather training to fight Ortiz, Pacquiao elects to fight rival Juan Manuel Marquez for the 3rd time.
6. Late 2011: Round 3 of Mayweather vs. Pacquiao talks ensue. Pacquiao announces he is willing to take on Mayweather's demands of Olympic style drug testing at any point during training and after the fight. The fight is close to being signed, however, now Mayweather goes back to his "lion's share of the purse" demands. States publicly that he will give Pacquiao $40 million USD and the rest of the purse is his. According to several boxing analysts, the total purse could be as low as $100 million upwards to $200 million USD.

From 2011 all the way to 2015, Mayweather moved the goal post with endless excuses to avoid the fight. Manny has losses, Manny’s PPV isn’t as big as mine, Manny needs to leave Too Rank, Manny has Marquez issues, Manny not good enough, where was Manny in the 90’s? Let’s face it, the whole reason he and his uncle and daddy started the steroid accusations was out of fear and not wanting a prime Pacquiao. They were successfully sued by Manny for a large out of court settlement.

Now, we are supposed to believe that Kevin Iole, who is a known Manny-hater and wrote several hit pieces on him was one of the only people to see this mythical 50/50 contract signed by Mayweather. If that were true, Floyd would have put it on video and all over the internet for the world to see. His own promoter said it never happened.

This is exactly what happened and it's laughable that some people still side with Floyd on this. Even outside of factual stuff to prove deluded people wrong, you can take one look at the fighters records and character and figure out pretty fast who was ducking who.

[Willie Pep 229]

Floyd agreed to the fight and sent over a contract in 2009. Pacquiao ruined it because he was afraid of stricter drug testing, yet years later started demanding that his opponents do stricter drug testing.

In any event Floyd beat him and handily whipped Pacquiao's nemesis Juan Manuel Marquez as well. Mayweather was the best fighter of that era.

Where does that come from "afraid of stricter drug testing" - how is that conclusion drawn?

He had his arm react to a needle before the Morales fight, lost and convinced himself that his aching arm was the cause. I don't see a resistance to the drug testing only an insistence that there be extended period between the test and the fight.

Based on what info do you say he resisted drug testing?

[ShoulderRoll]

Where does that come from "afraid of stricter drug testing" - how is that conclusion drawn?

He had his arm react to a needle before the Morales fight, lost and convinced himself that his aching arm was the cause. I don't see a resistance to the drug testing only an insistence that there be extended period between the test and the fight.

Based on what info do you say he resisted drug testing?

Based on the fact that he wouldn't sign the contract just because of the stricter drug testing.

[travestyny]

You didn’t back anything up. Still invested in Iole myth without any proof. You can’t produce the contract. You just want to run in circles as usual, until you have the last word. Double standards, believe Iole but not Lampley or Oscar. You insist on proof for everything said yet can’t produce it yourself.

What are you talking about? Do you actually read the things I say. You keep doing this thing where you make up things and assign them to me.

When did I ever discredit anything Lampley or Oscar said?

Furthermore, I just made it clear that people on all sides have acknowledged the contract. Do you get it now or is it too difficult for you?

[travestyny]

Not that many times, it was one of the most uneventful nights in boxing. Most of the shots you are talking about are compubox punches, reinforced with commentating. Aka they didn't even land or were grazing shots that hit his gloves. I won't argue about who's eyes saw what, but the entirety, non edited version of the fight is on YouTube with every exchange in slowmotion For all to see. Once again this isn't an argument on who's seeing right, it's for everyone to see. They do keep removing the video though, funny enough.

As for who won? I won't say Manny's performance was great either, Floyd put on a better show, but he was the one who actually ate a few licks in that fight, not Pacquiao. This is why Pacquiao says at the end of the fight "he didn't do anything, I thought I won".

That being said it is about ring generalship and such too, and it's more so for me that this fight happened too late. I'm not whining about who won. Pacquiao was simply on the slide and you would have to be a hater to not know this. He had been koed by Marquez and wasn't stopping anyone of note. If this fight happened in 2010-2012 the odds would have been dead even. But it didn't happen, and my gut instinct says it was Floyd. Why? I can't blame him, he was making 70 million fighting Guerrero. And like most physical fighters, if you wait them out they will slow down. The casual world only sees the names.

Pacquiao is fighting Spence next, he's clearly not the guy to avoid anyone.

So when we are talking about greatness it's probably more in reference to accomplishment and the odds they overcame. Being the best business man? Floyd, the most money? Floyd, still in good health? Floyd. He was the smart one. We aren't talking about that though, we aren't talking about ring greatness and I just don't see him being as great as he claims, he fought a safety first career. Never got in the ring with much risk, ONLY fought fighters he was supposed to beat.

I'm not against anything you've said as you are entitled to your own opinion, but Floyd clearly agreed during the first negotiation and Pacquiao refused because he claims he needed 24 days to recover from giving 2 tbsps of blood. The only reason this fight took so long to happen is because Bob Arum didn't have confidence that Pacquiao could win, and for good reason. Even Max Kellerman just about laughed in Manny's face when he said he thought he won.

[travestyny]

Why did Floyd all of a sudden demand Pacquiao do random blood testing, which no other fighter has to do in professional boxing? And what gives him the right to do so?

Because he thought he was a cheat. But that's irrelevant because Manny agreed to the testing. What stopped the fight from taking place was him needing 24 days to recover from giving 2 tbsps of blood.

[travestyny]

I thought Pac's insistence to the month delay after testing was becuse he had convinced himself that he lost to Morales in 2005 becuse of the adverse reaction he had to a blood test two days before the fight.

Where/when did Pac say he needed to recover from giving two tbs spoons of blood? How did you draw that conclusion?

Right or wrong (and likely wrong) he convinced himself he lost to Morales because of the bad reaction he had to the blood test and wasn't going to repeat the mistake.

He is after all a multi-millionaire, parliamentary legislator, and third world peasant.

I think it is pretty obvious why he wanted the delay after the blood test. Fighters can be very superstitious especially third world parliamentary peasants.

Bruh, he was offered a 14 day cutoff for blood testing. He originally wanted 30 days but they busted him giving blood 24 days out of the Hatton fight. So he was forced to go down to 24 days. This is already common knowledge. The amount of blood that is taken in blood testing is 2tbsps or less.

[GhostofDempsey]

Based on the fact that he wouldn't sign the contract just because of the stricter drug testing.

I already posted the timeline you glossed over. He agreed to full testing by 2011. From 2011-2015 is was straight excuses to prolong the fight. Wait for Manny to soften up from tough battles.

[ShoulderRoll]

I already posted the timeline you glossed over. He agreed to full testing by 2011. From 2011-2015 is was straight excuses to prolong the fight. Wait for Manny to soften up from tough battles.

2009 is earlier than 2011-2015, isn't it?

That's when I said Floyd sent over a contract but Pacquiao ruined things just because of a little drug testing.