Is Duran the greatest fighter still alive today?

[GhostofDempsey]

You were the one engaged in discussing it before I was. I just joined in. So you are just as guilty, no?


In fact, you were the one who brought up the topic, so you shouldn't be upset if someone counters your claim. If you don't want to discuss it, then don't bring it up.

I gave another poster my reasons for ranking Manny higher than Floyd. You wanted to play Johnnie Cochran and try to prove my OPINION wrong.

[travestyny]

I gave another poster my reasons for ranking Manny higher than Floyd. You wanted to play Johnnie Cochran and try to prove my OPINION wrong.

If you make a claim, be prepared to back it up in the face of counter-arguments. That's how a discussion works.

[GhostofDempsey]

If you make a claim, be prepared to back it up in the face of counter-arguments. That's how a discussion works.

You didn’t back anything up. Still invested in Iole myth without any proof. You can’t produce the contract. You just want to run in circles as usual, until you have the last word. Double standards, believe Iole but not Lampley or Oscar. You insist on proof for everything said yet can’t produce it yourself.

[them_apples]

The problem with Pacquiao is that he doesn't have the technical skill to match up with Floyd. How many times did we watch him gradually push Floyd to the corner, only to be clocked with a check hook and have Floyd turn out....over and over and over again. I'm surprised that he never learned how to cut off the ring effectively.

Duran, Sugar Ray, and I'd have to go Floyd next. For what it's worth, I think Canelo is amazing and could possibly move into this list before his career is done.

Not that many times, it was one of the most uneventful nights in boxing. Most of the shots you are talking about are compubox punches, reinforced with commentating. Aka they didn't even land or were grazing shots that hit his gloves. I won't argue about who's eyes saw what, but the entirety, non edited version of the fight is on YouTube with every exchange in slowmotion For all to see. Once again this isn't an argument on who's seeing right, it's for everyone to see. They do keep removing the video though, funny enough.

As for who won? I won't say Manny's performance was great either, Floyd put on a better show, but he was the one who actually ate a few licks in that fight, not Pacquiao. This is why Pacquiao says at the end of the fight "he didn't do anything, I thought I won".

That being said it is about ring generalship and such too, and it's more so for me that this fight happened too late. I'm not whining about who won. Pacquiao was simply on the slide and you would have to be a hater to not know this. He had been koed by Marquez and wasn't stopping anyone of note. If this fight happened in 2010-2012 the odds would have been dead even. But it didn't happen, and my gut instinct says it was Floyd. Why? I can't blame him, he was making 70 million fighting Guerrero. And like most physical fighters, if you wait them out they will slow down. The casual world only sees the names.

Pacquiao is fighting Spence next, he's clearly not the guy to avoid anyone.

So when we are talking about greatness it's probably more in reference to accomplishment and the odds they overcame. Being the best business man? Floyd, the most money? Floyd, still in good health? Floyd. He was the smart one. We aren't talking about that though, we aren't talking about ring greatness and I just don't see him being as great as he claims, he fought a safety first career. Never got in the ring with much risk, ONLY fought fighters he was supposed to beat.

[them_apples]

Tell me who has been constantly trying to drag this conversation into the mud and still won't stop? You're welcome to cut the bs at any time now.



You keep making up things. Floyd did shoot his hands up with lidocaine in the past. No idea why you are deflecting to that, but it was discussed with Margaret Goodman during the preview of one of his fights. She was at the time a part of NSAC and obviously they didn't have an issue with it. I've never said he didn't use lidocaine, so who is "gaslighting."

And who is cherrypicking? As I stated, important players from all sides (right, left, and center) have acknowledged the contract. It's common sense. You choose one side because we both know you have a hard time handling the truth.

Why did Floyd all of a sudden demand Pacquiao do random blood testing, which no other fighter has to do in professional boxing? And what gives him the right to do so?

[them_apples]

I don’t believe that, especially since Floyd admits he stalled the fight for years. He claims he knew it would be a bigger PPV but it was actually him waiting for Manny to get some battle fatigue and slow down a step.

This is exactly what happened. Anyone who doesn't see this is delusional. Smart move for Floyd but doesn't take away the fact that this is what happened. He waited PAC out, cashed out and was lucky he made it out lol.

[Willie Pep 229]

He stated flat out that he saw the contract. So you're saying you believe he is lying? The thing was so detailed that it talked about whose name would be on the posters first or something like that.

I just asked a simple question. Do you believe Pacquiao needed 24 days to recover from giving less than 2 tbsps of blood? If you don't want to answer, then don't answer.

Mayweather begged for the fight before his prison stint. Arum is on record saying Pac declined because he wanted to fight Marquez again, and that the Mayweather fight will always be there. You don't remember that? I'm sure I can jog your memory if you'd like, but I doubt you'd like me to because you'd rather dismiss any evidence and deflect to ad hominem attacks ("war of attrition"?) instead of looking at what really happened.


By the way, Bob Arum admits to the contract in the same article. So no "war of attrition" is needed to know that the talk of Mayweather sending the 50/50 split contract was real.

I thought Pac's insistence to the month delay after testing was becuse he had convinced himself that he lost to Morales in 2005 becuse of the adverse reaction he had to a blood test two days before the fight.

Where/when did Pac say he needed to recover from giving two tbs spoons of blood? How did you draw that conclusion?

Right or wrong (and likely wrong) he convinced himself he lost to Morales because of the bad reaction he had to the blood test and wasn't going to repeat the mistake.

He is after all a multi-millionaire, parliamentary legislator, and third world peasant.

I think it is pretty obvious why he wanted the delay after the blood test. Fighters can be very superstitious especially third world parliamentary peasants.

[GhostofDempsey]

This is exactly what happened. Anyone who doesn't see this is delusional. Smart move for Floyd but doesn't take away the fact that this is what happened. He waited PAC out, cashed out and was lucky he made it out lol.

Manny actually agreed to random testing up 30 days before the fight, as early as late 2009.

1. Late May-July 2010: 2nd round of Pacquiao vs. Mayweather talks begin. This time, Pacquiao softens up on his Olympic style drug testing stance and agrees to go all the way up to 7 days before the fight (source: Michael Koncz, Pacquiao-Margarito 24/7, Ep. 1).
2. July 17, 2010: With a deadline imposed on Mayweather by Bob Arum (even making a ticker-time deadline on his website, toprank.com), Mayweather fails to respond and the fight is off again. Mayweather elected to take a long layoff until Sept. 2011. Pacquiao eventually agreed to fight Antonio Margarito which he won in emphatic fashion by becoming the first 8 division champion in boxing history.
3. December 2010/Early-Mid 2011: With Mayweather electing to continue his long layoff and Pacquiao wishing to remain active, Pacquiao chooses to fight Shane Mosley in May 2011 while Mayweather has numerous run-ins with the law (one of which is why he was sentenced to jail).
4. Late May-June 2011: With Mayweather ready to go back in to the ring, but not ready to fight Pacquiao, he tweets that he has chosen to take on Victor Ortiz on Sept. 17, 2011, a young, strong southpaw, in preparation to take on Pacquiao immediately afterwards.
5. June-July 2011: With Mayweather training to fight Ortiz, Pacquiao elects to fight rival Juan Manuel Marquez for the 3rd time.
6. Late 2011: Round 3 of Mayweather vs. Pacquiao talks ensue. Pacquiao announces he is willing to take on Mayweather's demands of Olympic style drug testing at any point during training and after the fight. The fight is close to being signed, however, now Mayweather goes back to his "lion's share of the purse" demands. States publicly that he will give Pacquiao $40 million USD and the rest of the purse is his. According to several boxing analysts, the total purse could be as low as $100 million upwards to $200 million USD.

From 2011 all the way to 2015, Mayweather moved the goal post with endless excuses to avoid the fight. Manny has losses, Manny’s PPV isn’t as big as mine, Manny needs to leave Too Rank, Manny has Marquez issues, Manny not good enough, where was Manny in the 90’s? Let’s face it, the whole reason he and his uncle and daddy started the steroid accusations was out of fear and not wanting a prime Pacquiao. They were successfully sued by Manny for a large out of court settlement.

Now, we are supposed to believe that Kevin Iole, who is a known Manny-hater and wrote several hit pieces on him was one of the only people to see this mythical 50/50 contract signed by Mayweather. If that were true, Floyd would have put it on video and all over the internet for the world to see. His own promoter said it never happened.

[ShoulderRoll]

I thought Pac's insistence to the month delay after testing was becuse he had convinced himself that he lost to Morales in 2005 becuse of the adverse reaction he had to a blood test two days before the fight.

Where/when did Pac say he needed to recover from giving two tbs spoons of blood? How did you draw that conclusion?

Right or wrong (and likely wrong) he convinced himself he lost to Morales because of the bad reaction he had to the blood test and wasn't going to repeat the mistake.

He is after all a multi-millionaire, parliamentary legislator, and third world peasant.

I think it is pretty obvious why he wanted the delay after the blood test. Fighters can be very superstitious especially third world parliamentary peasants.

What exactly makes Pacquiao a third world peasant?

And does that apply to Roberto Duran as well?

[Willie Pep 229]

What exactly makes Pacquiao a third world peasant?

And does that apply to Roberto Duran as well?

Put aside my bad taste in humor and address the point regarding whether Pac was stalling or actually afraid of a repeated bad event. That's the issue I was addressing.