Fuel to the fire. Johnson admits Langford did in fact for him!

[travestyny]

I already proved to my satisfaction that Dempsey agreed to fight Wills on at least two occasions. Back while Wills was still prime. By '26 Wills played himself. Ducked Tunney for his biggest payday ever only to get worked over by Sharkey. Dempsey would have mauled him in '26 but got a better deal for Tunney, who was a much tougher fight. I'll trust the dozen or so witnesses who watched Dempsey's hands wrapped, to include Willard who inspected them right before the gloves went on.

Well good for you if you feel satisfied that he made an effort to fight Wills. Those of us others who are honest know he ducked the hell out of Wills


Wills didn't have to fight Tunney. He was busy waiting for his shot at Dempsey. Besides that, he offered Tunney a shot when he had a venue he promised to fight at before the ducked Wills/Dempsey fight, and Tunney declined.

It's your opinion that Dempsey would have mauled him. Dempsey didn't look great in '26 either. But opinions on who would have won don't have anything to do with Dempsey avoiding the fight repeatedly.

You are welcome to trust who you want about the hand wraps. I'm going to trust the man who wrapped his hands. lol. It's comical. The man told you exactly what he did but you believe he must have been senile and chose to believe others who merely looked at the wraps and didn't comment either way on the nature of the wraps other than to note it was indeed tape. Great job.

Very convenient that you can say Floyd never did anything illegal with his wraps or hands, while thinking you have irrefutable proof that Dempsey did, when even if he did have bicycle tape on his hands (which he likely did not), it was perfectly legal. You have spent hundreds of pages trying to discredit Dempsey over something that was perfectly legal in the first place. Yet claim you don't bash Dempsey. You call him a liar and a coward and a cheat, but you're not bashing him. Okay, this is why I call you a psychotic. The way you latch onto a topic and refuse to concede, post the same sources you keep on a file on your computer, along with years-old screenshots of members posts. You're behavior discourages good posters from posting because they get tired of running in circles arguing the same nonsense. You get a few of your fellow cheerleaders to pat you on the back and declare you a "winner", whatever that means, and you think you schooled everyone with 100 year old news clippings.

Believe what you want. Floyd has been under a cloud of su****ion for over a decade. Xylocaine usage being sealed, secret Mexican medicine used on his hands, secret "conforming" gauze, etc. Roach insisted Floyd's hands were wrapped too thick. Floyd had the USADA in his pocket--granted a two week exception after he already used an illegal IV, along with the corrupt NSAC. That's why he wouldn't fight outside of Vegas.

Nope. I never said Dempsey did anything illegal because there weren't as stringent rules back then. I said he used a "trick of the trade" that was seen as unfair, but not illegal. It actually may have been illegal according to the rules of Toledo that I've seen, but generally speaking back then it wouldn't be called illegal so I have no reason to push that angle. All I know is Willard made a big fuss over funny business with wraps, and Dempsey and team gave him funny business with wraps.

You're the only one who is upset and still going with the insults. You can grow up at anytime now. I'm perfectly fine giving proof of everything I say without all the insults. It's usually the ones that get upset who are lacking in their argument, especially when no insults are being thrown back at them.

You're quite welcome to feel any way you want about Mayweather. What does that mean to me? lol. All I know is that the man passed all of his 300 plus drug tests and the commission was aware of his hand issues, even appearing in a video with him about his hand issues, and never had any problem with what he did. On the other hand, Dempsey's wraps were used for the explicit purpose of causing "unusual punishment." It is what it is, right?

[GhostofDempsey]

Well good for you if you feel satisfied that he made an effort to fight Wills. Those of us others who are honest know he ducked the hell out of Wills


Wills didn't have to fight Tunney. He was busy waiting for his shot at Dempsey. Besides that, he offered Tunney a shot when he had a venue he promised to fight at before the ducked Wills/Dempsey fight, and Tunney declined.

It's your opinion that Dempsey would have mauled him. Dempsey didn't look great in '26 either. But opinions on who would have won don't have anything to do with Dempsey avoiding the fight repeatedly.

You are welcome to trust who you want about the hand wraps. I'm going to trust the man who wrapped his hands. lol. It's comical. The man told you exactly what he did but you believe he must have been senile and chose to believe others who merely looked at the wraps and didn't comment either way on the nature of the wraps other than to note it was indeed tape. Great job.






Nope. I never said Dempsey did anything illegal because there weren't as stringent rules back then. I said he used a "trick of the trade" that was seen as unfair, but not illegal. It actually may have been illegal according to the rules of Toledo that I've seen, but generally speaking back then it wouldn't be called illegal so I have no reason to push that angle. All I know is Willard made a big fuss over funny business with wraps, and Dempsey and team gave him funny business with wraps.

You're the only one who is upset and still going with the insults. You can grow up at anytime now. I'm perfectly fine giving proof of everything I say without all the insults. It's usually the ones that get upset who are lacking in their argument, especially when no insults are being thrown back at them.

You're quite welcome to feel any way you want about Mayweather. What does that mean to me? lol. All I know is that the man passed all of his 300 plus drug tests and the commission was aware of his hand issues, even appearing in a video with him about his hand issues, and never had any problem with what he did. On the other hand, Dempsey's wraps were used for the explicit purpose of causing "unusual punishment." It is what it is, right?

A trick of the trade is not unfair if everyone can use it. Willard was well aware of any tricks of the trade, and his corner man witnessed the taping of Dempsey's hands. Reported nothing of concern. Willard examined them and saw nothing out of sorts. A hundred years later there is an obsessed internet poster who thinks he is solving a murder mystery by insisting everyone else was either lying or too dumb to see what was going on in front of their face. You are unable to see how insane that is because you have an agenda.

Wills people didn't come up with the money first two times. Dempsey was tired of getting yanked around. He didn't need Wills. Tunney was a bigger fight and a much better fighter. Wills turned down $500K to fight Tunney. Dempsey fought the guy who Wills ducked.

Insults? You're the guy who calls anyone a liar who doesn't agree with you! You just did it in this post. Insist you're the only honest guy because you believe Dempsey ducked Wills. This is why good posters don't want to bother with you. Go back and argue with Spoon for another 400 pages and five years, lol.

[travestyny]

A trick of the trade is not unfair if everyone can use it. Willard was well aware of any tricks of the trade, and his corner man witnessed the taping of Dempsey's hands. Reported nothing of concern. Willard examined them and saw nothing out of sorts. A hundred years later there is an obsessed internet poster who thinks he is solving a murder mystery by insisting everyone else was either lying or too dumb to see what was going on in front of their face. You are unable to see how insane that is because you have an agenda.

Wills people didn't come up with the money first two times. Dempsey was tired of getting yanked around. He didn't need Wills. Tunney was a bigger fight and a much better fighter. Wills turned down $500K to fight Tunney. Dempsey fought the guy who Wills ducked.

Insults? You're the guy who calls anyone a liar who doesn't agree with you! You just did it in this post. Insist you're the only honest guy because you believe Dempsey ducked Wills. This is why good posters don't want to bother with you. Go back and argue with Spoon for another 400 pages and five years, lol.

That's not what it says in the 1910 article about "Tricks of the trade," including the old McCoy bicycle tape trick. It ends this way.

Most of these tricks are unfair, yes: but what tricks are not? Many gentlemen of many desirable professions live in glass houses, it seems. Can they afford to throw stones at gentlemanly pugilists?

A good point. What trick is not unfair. Especially since Willard pleaded that nothing funny be done with the wraps, and made it clear that he would only use soft gauze with just enough tape to hold it in place. He certainly didn't opt for tape that would cause "unusual punishment." I commend him for not going that route. I only wish his opponent would have treated him with the same high degree of honest sportsmanship.

Wills people? Do you mean Dempsey's guy, FItz? There were rumblings that it was all BS by his good friend Fitz. There was even a guy on Dempsey's team that quit because he realized something was going on funny. Once the Chicago Coliseum Club came in and had the money secure (you don't need to see the certified check again, do you), Dempsey balked and walked. Yet he claimed that Wills was the only man he ever wanted to fight. Guaranteed money worth more than his guarantee for Tunney, but nah.

Once gain, Tunney was offered a Wills fight. He declined. Do you really need proof of this?

Who are "Good posters" according to you? 1bad? I have conversations with a various amount of posters here and we have no issues, but feel free to keep making up lies.



By the way, it doesn't matter who you say saw those wraps. Especially since looking at them doesn't reveal the trick, obviously, but you guys want to keep ducking that. We know what the man who applied the wraps said. But feel free to keep calling him senile if you think that helps your agenda.

[GhostofDempsey]

That's not what it says in the 1910 article about "Tricks of the trade," including the old McCoy bicycle tape trick. It ends this way.




A good point. What trick is not unfair. Especially since Willard pleaded that nothing funny be done with the wraps, and made it clear that he would only use soft gauze with just enough tape to hold it in place. He certainly didn't opt for tape that would cause "unusual punishment." I commend him for not going that route. I only wish his opponent would have treated him with the same high degree of honest sportsmanship.

Wills people? Do you mean Dempsey's guy, FItz? There were rumblings that it was all BS by his good friend Fitz. There was even a guy on Dempsey's team that quit because he realized something was going on funny. Once the Chicago Coliseum Club came in and had the money secure (you don't need to see the certified check again, do you), Dempsey balked and walked. Yet he claimed that Wills was the only man he ever wanted to fight. Guaranteed money worth more than his guarantee for Tunney, but nah.

Once gain, Tunney was offered a Wills fight. He declined. Do you really need proof of this?

Who are "Good posters" according to you? 1bad? I have conversations with a various amount of posters here and we have no issues, but feel free to keep making up lies.

DeForest said he used five layers of gauze and two layers of adhesive. That is all. Willard inspected his wraps, so did the ref, so did the ringside doctor. One of Willard's seconds was in Dempsey's locker room witnessing his hands being wrapped, as was Fleischer and other members of the press.

Now you're talking about "rumblings" of Fitz lying. Yet completely dismiss any of the more recent "rumblings" of Floyd shooting Xylocaine into his hands. How convenient.

I don't need proof of anything. Bottom line is, Wills turned down $500K for a fight with Tunney, and instead got schooled by Sharkey. What happened prior doesn't mean anything. He turned down an offer that would have brought him closer to a title shot--well not exactly, because he would have been schooled just as badly by Tunney. But it was the best offer of his life. None of your 100 year old articles that only tell one side of the story will change that.

There are plenty of members who have come and gone who know that arguing with you is an exercise in futility. They allow you to win the war of attrition and keep what is left of their dignity intact instead of arguing with someone who has an unhealthy obsession to be right all the time or to get the last word and "win". This is why I put you on ignore so many times. Not because I ducked you, not because I was schooled. I just got tired of rolling around in the mud with you. There is no self respect in that, it just brings me down to your level. No amount of sources will ever convince you of what you don't want to hear. This is your M.O. in every subject and every thread you argue on. Hence why I brought up the Pac/Floyd thread. You are still arguing on that thread--five years in, and still repeating the same arguments.

[travestyny]

Wills people didn't come up with the money first two times. Dempsey was tired of getting yanked around. He didn't need Wills. Tunney was a bigger fight and a much better fighter. Wills turned down $500K to fight Tunney. Dempsey fought the guy who Wills ducked.

Tunney wasn't a bigger fight. The public wanted Wills since '22. Not only that, but the guarantee for the Wills fight was more than the guarantee for the Tunney fight, and Dempsey still ducked it.

Wills was already set to fight Dempsey, but had one fight in between that he promised at this time. He needed an opponent. Well what do you know? According to the promoters, look who they offered the fight to. And look who declined.

The Indianapolis Times - November 4th, 1925

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Not that it matters because I'm well aware that this is merely a deflection from Dempsey refusing to fight Wills.

[GhostofDempsey]

Tunney wasn't a bigger fight. The public wanted Wills since '22. Not only that, but the guarantee for the Wills fight was more than the guarantee for the Tunney fight, and Dempsey still ducked it.

Wills was already set to fight Dempsey, but had one fight in between that he promised at this time. He needed an opponent. Well what do you know? According to the promoters, look who they offered the fight to. And look who declined.

The Indianapolis Times - November 4th, 1925

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Not that it matters because I'm well aware that this is merely a deflection from Dempsey refusing to fight Wills.

Again, the 100 year old anonymous source you want to use as gospel and testimony, the end all be all to the subject. Good thing you are aren't a defense attorney, most of your clients would get life sentences or the chair.

[travestyny]

DeForest said he used five layers of gauze and two layers of adhesive. That is all. Willard inspected his wraps, so did the ref, so did the ringside doctor. One of Willard's seconds was in Dempsey's locker room witnessing his hands being wrapped, as was Fleischer and other members of the press.

Now you're talking about "rumblings" of Fitz lying. Yet completely dismiss any of the more recent "rumblings" of Floyd shooting Xylocaine into his hands. How convenient.

I don't need proof of anything. Bottom line is, Wills turned down $500K for a fight with Tunney, and instead got schooled by Sharkey. What happened prior doesn't mean anything. He turned down an offer that would have brought him closer to a title shot--well not exactly, because he would have been schooled just as badly by Tunney. But it was the best offer of his life. None of your 100 year old articles that only tell one side of the story will change that.

There are plenty of members who have come and gone who know that arguing with you is an exercise in futility. They allow you to win the war of attrition and keep what is left of their dignity intact instead of arguing with someone who has an unhealthy obsession to be right all the time or to get the last word and "win". This is why I put you on ignore so many times. Not because I ducked you, not because I was schooled. I just got tired of rolling around in the mud with you. There is no self respect in that, it just brings me down to your level. No amount of sources will ever convince you of what you don't want to hear. This is your M.O. in every subject and every thread you argue on. Hence why I brought up the Pac/Floyd thread. You are still arguing on that thread--five years in, and still repeating the same arguments.

You are still going.

DeForest also said what kind of tape he used, and that the tape would cause "unusual punishment" and was the reason Dempsey "ripped Willard to ribbons." There is no reason for me to keep repeating this except that you can't seem to accept it.

I don't need rumblings about Fitz. I have a court case that says Dempsey broke a valid contract for the fight. That's all that's needed.

The last time Floyd reportedly used Xylocaine, the commission was in a video with him about it. So I don't see the issue.

And the bottom line is Wills was waiting for his deserved match with Dempsey. Not only that, but as I stated above, he approved Tunney for his in between fight that was promised to Newark and Tunney declined. Wills deserved the shot at the title and he was attempting to get it done, but Dempsey was ducking.

You are welcome to say whom you think would have been schooled. Dempsey was the one ultimately schooled since he didn't win a round by some accounts. So what does that mean? He still ducked Wills.

You can keep trying to make this about me all you want. "Plenty of members" equals you, a few racists that you agree with, and....pretty sure that's about it. All I get from this is that you're upset that I have plenty of evidence to back up my claims and you don't. It's what your "good poster" buddy 1bad would call an "ad hominem attack." When you have no proof regarding the topic, go with the insults. You're still trying to throw mud because you know I can prove exactly what I say. I'm really not sorry it upsets you.

If you were such a good poster yourself, you'd be able to accept when you are wrong. Like about the Jennette/Johnson match. But you can't, can you? I recall there being a thread made about you in the thunderdome with a number of posters calling you racist trash. But that's irrelevant to this topic.

[travestyny]

Again, the 100 year old anonymous source you want to use as gospel and testimony, the end all be all to the subject. Good thing you are aren't a defense attorney, most of your clients would get life sentences or the chair.

Anonymous sources that you use when they fit your agenda, and then claim it's just because I use them. lol. Yea, ok buddy. I believe that.


How about that court document that shows Dempsey ducked Wills by breaking that contract. Was that anonymous, too?

[Willie Pep 229]

Tunney wasn't a bigger fight. The public wanted Wills since '22. Not only that, but the guarantee for the Wills fight was more than the guarantee for the Tunney fight, and Dempsey still ducked it.

Wills was already set to fight Dempsey, but had one fight in between that he promised at this time. He needed an opponent. Well what do you know? According to the promoters, look who they offered the fight to. And look who declined.

The Indianapolis Times - November 4th, 1925

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Not that it matters because I'm well aware that this is merely a deflection from Dempsey refusing to fight Wills.

This clipping is a week after the fight. Tunney wasn't in a position to accept the offer as announced here. Do you have an offer to Tunney from Wills for that fight date before the fight?

All we have here is Will's people claiming after the fact that Gibson backed off. Need to see the offer a reasonable time before the fight.

Was Floyd Johnson in the tank? At first blush it looks like Johnson's people were bought off. One minute?

Wills wasn't very active between Firpo and Sharkey - he seems to have been winding down his career almost as much as Dempsey was; or maybe he was out pricing himself.

[travestyny]

This clipping is a week after the fight. Tunney wasn't in a position to accept the offer as announced here. Do you have an offer to Tunney from Wills for that fight date before the fight?

All we have here is Will's people claiming after the fact that Gibson backed off. Need to see the offer a reasonable time before the fight.

Was Floyd Johnson in the tank? At first blush it looks like Johnson's people were bought off. One minute?

Wills wasn't very active between Firpo and Sharkey - he seems to have been winding down his career almost as much as Dempsey was; or maybe he was out pricing himself.

Obviously if the promoters are discussing this, the talks happened before. That's common sense. The promoters would have no reason to lie for one side or the other. That is the proof of the offer.

This was NOT WIlls people. It was the promoters for a fight to be held in Newark. Wills people was his manager, as far as I know, and this statement obviously wasn't from him.


Wills was waiting for his shot at the title. If any man should have been, that would have been Wills. Who was waiting since around '22 if not earlier.