Why is there no ring film of Harry Greb?

[GhostofDempsey]

Come on, you can't go with the narrative newspapers said a lot of things back then. What was reported was reported by more than one source. And as I've said, I can find many more articles calling Greb exciting than you can saying he wasn't very exciting. I would bet cash money on that. And when the hell did I give Johnson a pass?

Why wouldn't a heavyweight get credit for beating the best fighter out there? Because Greb was certainly laying waste to all the guys Jack fought. Do you give him more credit for beating Brennan even after Greb proved he was better than Brennan. Same with Miske, Gibbons etc. You're saying Dempsey is a greater fighter for beating these guys rather than Greb? With all due respect, because I do respect you, but that is laughable.

Let's call it a day on this topic and move on. It's apparent neither of us is going to change our opinion so let's let it go. I'm sure it will come up again.

I've also quoted several papers and sources. Who to believe and which ones had the story right are always going to be up for debate. A HW doesn't get credit for beating a MW, not then, not ever. Like I pointed out, HW's don't even get credit beating the best LHW and the P4P best fighter out there, let alone a MW. You also have to remember that the versions of these men who fought Greb were smaller than when they fought Dempsey. Perhaps not by much but every pound they didn't need to drain off or sweat out counts.

I'll leave it here. We agree to disagree. Thank you for the civil and reasonable debate, it's a refreshing change from what seems to be the norm on forums these days.

[travestyny]

Lighten up - I wasn't calling you a liar I was replying to remark you made that I would never say anything bad about Dempsey - you were calling me bias so I was teasing you saying you sound just like Fox News claiming that you're "fair and balanced" and that I'm fake news.

Just a joke T

In regards to Jeffries, again I never called you a liar I interpreted the quote in its entire and argued that the statement regarding "my best" (by Jeffries) was connected to his complaint about his performance in Reno that day not his entire career.

You then showed me a primary source that showed the same comment ( or maybe just half of it) was made just days after the fight -- but that still doesn't mean that the first half of the quote regarding the dysentery wasn't still relevant maybe just not quoted. I argued that the source you posted may have taken the quote out of context/edited. Tha'ts not calling you a liar.

What do you want me to apologize to? I never called you a liar I didn't agree with your interpretation of the quote and I still don't.

I acknowledged that the news article was more primary than the first post (which was written I think years later) but it's funny that the first source had the complete quote and the one you posted only had the second half (maybe, maybe not) - remember we argued over (in the first article posted) that you said the the writer said "back then" and I pointed out that is only said "then" -- we can't tell if the writer meant "back then" or if he meant that Jeffries was continueing to speak.

I find it hard to believe Jeffries (or any fighter) would ever claim he couldn't have beaten the other guy when he was young. They all have very big egos and always claim there is a reason why they lost.

I do apologize for breaking your balls but I never called you a liar and I shall not, in future, tease you.

I don't believe the quote as is (his entire career) because I don't believe he would ever say that - his ego/pride wouldn't let him.

Will you post the rest of the natioal survey I would like to see if Greb and Tunney made the national list.

If you are offended I will back off and not engage you further- but I would much prefer to continue breaking your balls - there aren't that many interesting conversations on here you're one of the few.

You specifically said I plucked out part of the quotation to fit an agenda, when it was clear to me that you read the article incorrectly. Do tell....if, as you claim, the article is regarding two different times.....are you arguing that they are both taking place when the original quotation, which I proved was clearly in 1910, took place? How does that make sense?

How was "in 1000 years" related to that day? Does that make sense?

Do you see anything about Dysentery here? Do you see where it says, "in my prime."




What say you about it now, or are you the type that can't admit when you are wrong?


You get offended when I type such little things like "lol," yet I've noticed you have a certain passive aggressive thing going on. I was willing to take your Fox News thing as a joke initially, until I saw you going on with it and mentioning it to other posters. What haven't I been fair and balanced about? I've even shown where I was willing to believe Johnson ducked other black fighters before the information I found led me to believe otherwise. I've shown where I believed Dempsey should get a pass for Wills, until other information I found proved that he ducked Wills.

You are in here claiming that the lack of offers and the poll (which I don't have any more of) means Dempsey is off the hook for Greb. Yet we have the offer Dempsey ducked out of and the poll that showed the public wanted Wills which condemn Dempsey. What say you about that? Doesn't that prove Dempsey ducked Wills, or is there some kind of double standard at work? I'd love to know.

[travestyny]

Reminds me of the poll Mayweather put out asking his fans who his next opponent should be. Of course he only gave them two choices...Khan or Maidana. Most fans chose Khan, he chose Maidana instead even though Khan would have been a more lucrative fight. The Floyd fans not only gave him a pass but made excuses on his behalf. Look what happened when Johnson tore up his contract to fight Langford once he became champion...what was his excuse? Money. The Dempsey haters hold him to a separate standard.

Oh I remember this well. There were something like three polls. Maidana won 2 of them. Khan won one coming from behind when he begged his twitter fans to vote for him, and he had many more of them than Marcos Maidana.

Take a look at the ESPN poll:

To give you some sort of an idea on just how different the data is, fighthype.com’s internal poll currently has Maidana at 73% over Khan at 27% and *********.com has “El Chino” in the lead at 78% beating his fellow Brit contender at 22%. At first glance, these numbers have the possibility of being skewed as the fan base for each of these news sources is reduced (maybe a 100 votes tops) compared to those viewing the official poll on Mayweather Promotions. However, the biggest kicker comes via ESPN – one of the largest sporting networks and news outlets in the world – as their numbers indicate 63% of fans want to see Marcos fight Floyd next as opposed 37% voting the other way. This data being processed is coming from a whopping 67,000 voters – close to 30,000 more than at Mayweather’s own site. Needless to say the trend seems legitimate: the fans want Maidana.

Why not compare that to the Dempsey/Wills situation. EVERY poll had Wills on top. Hmmm.

As for Johnson and Langford, there was a contract for a whopping $4000 to the winner and $2000 to the loser for a fight that was to be before he had the championship, Mr. "The money wasn't there." The fight was scrapped by all sides once he won the championship. The promoters wanted him to reschedule for May. No May contract has ever surfaced. If you find it, do share it with us. I've been waiting a long time for it.

[Marchegiano]

Dempsey beat Miske twice in 1918...before Greb beat him.

Dempsey beat Brennan in 1918...before Greb beat him.

Dempsey beat Meehan before Greb.

According to press at ringside for the Greb/Gibbons fight..."As a fight it was a disappointment. It was furiously fast and hotly contested, but the impression stood out all over that either one would be easy for Dempsey."

Seems like Greb fought a lot of Dempsey's leftovers. At least that's how Floyd fans would phrase it when they speak of Pacquiao. Double standards much?

Why did Marciano fight a washed up, older Moore who had already lost to Charles 3x, the last one ending in brutal KO?

There is no GOOD win for a HW against a MW. Tyson Spinks is a perfect example of how a bigger man doesn't get credit against a great smaller man. And that's a LHW great, not a MW. A win over Greb is nothing to brag about for Dempsey. Same way a win over Ketchel was nothing to brag about for Johnson, though that doesn't stop some casuals from doing just that.

I don't feel like you actually addressed anything tbh.

Seems to me you took everything I said as a put down and in return put down the names I chose to use rather than address any point made.

But Dempsey fought dem prior too doesn't negate or even address the idea that Greb is easier to promote as a Dempsey title fight than Miske because Greb beat Miske, multiple times, so did Jack? Well....that just farther my point doesn't it? Not only did Greb beat Miske multiple times, so did Jack, making Miske a very unnecessary challenger who is easy to use as a promotional tool to sell Greb.

Greb wasn't past it for Dempsey's title run. WTF does Moore being old have to do with anything?
Moore beat Valdes, which you know is the reason he got Marciano. What Moore has to do with Greb I have no clue.

Again, Spinks has one past it win over a Mike opponent. Greb didn't have past it win, he had prime wins. Greb wasn't past it himself, he was prime. These excuses hold water like a cheese grater.

You don't always have to defend Jack. In fact, the most telling example of your bias is you always do. Somethings were wrong to do for his legacy, Greb is one of those things.

[billeau2]

What might that be ?

We have a survey but Greb's not on it - we have one offer but it is way too low - so what might that "way to do it" be?

The question is would a Greb fight have been a draw. That is a valid hypothetical to explore. It has nothing to do with proving a negative. I am not taking a position on the debate, but looking at how people are coming to a conclusion. I have not made up my mind as to whether Dempsey should have sought a fight out with Greb, or more to the point, if Dempsey avoided Greb.

I tend to think there are other moving parts here. But we should not use false forms to weigh in on such an argument.

[GhostofDempsey]

I don't feel like you actually addressed anything tbh.

Seems to me you took everything I said as a put down and in return put down the names I chose to use rather than address any point made.

But Dempsey fought dem prior too doesn't negate or even address the idea that Greb is easier to promote as a Dempsey title fight than Miske because Greb beat Miske, multiple times, so did Jack? Well....that just farther my point doesn't it? Not only did Greb beat Miske multiple times, so did Jack, making Miske a very unnecessary challenger who is easy to use as a promotional tool to sell Greb.

Greb wasn't past it for Dempsey's title run. WTF does Moore being old have to do with anything?
Moore beat Valdes, which you know is the reason he got Marciano. What Moore has to do with Greb I have no clue.

Again, Spinks has one past it win over a Mike opponent. Greb didn't have past it win, he had prime wins. Greb wasn't past it himself, he was prime. These excuses hold water like a cheese grater.

You don't always have to defend Jack. In fact, the most telling example of your bias is you always do. Somethings were wrong to do for his legacy, Greb is one of those things.

You don't follow enough of my posts to make that call. I ignore half of the Dempsey related threads on here, or the ones Travesty hijacks that have nothing at all to do with Dempsey. Your observations are misplaced at best. Marciano fighting a washed up Moore, after Moore already took three beatings from Charles--who Marciano already beat twice is worth exploring. As are his mob connections and the suitcase full of d!cks he traveled with regularly.

[billeau2]

You don't follow enough of my posts to make that call. I ignore half of the Dempsey related threads on here, or the ones Travesty hijacks that have nothing at all to do with Dempsey. Your observations are misplaced at best. Marciano fighting a washed up Moore, after Moore already took three beatings from Charles--who Marciano already beat twice is worth exploring. As are his mob connections and the suitcase full of d!cks he traveled with regularly.

Would it be naive of me to point out that back in the 1950's I did not know D i l d o s existed yet?

[GhostofDempsey]

Would it be naive of me to point out that back in the 1950's I did not know D i l d o s existed yet?

I recently ran across a random article that revealed ancient *****s made of stone, bone and/or wood dating back almost 30,000 years!

[Willie Pep 229]

I recently ran across a random article that revealed ancient *****s made of stone, bone and/or wood dating back almost 30,000 years!

Did they say who was using them, lonely women, gay boys, or dominatrices?

Any good cave paintings?

[JAB5239]

Well, this thread took a strange turn!