Why is there no ring film of Harry Greb?

[JAB5239]

SORRY, I got two more remarks.

First you know that Greb would have shown up for a sparing session with the HW Champion looking to prove himself, Dempsey not so much.

Second, when Tunney beat Greb for the final time Greb addressed the crowd announcing he wouldn't be fighting Tunney any more; he conceded to the better man stating that he could no longer beat him. That Tunney still had 8 1/2 pounds to gain before Dempsey. Greb never fought the guy who beat Dempsey.

You do realize it was three sparring sessions, right? It was also preparation for the Dempsey-Miske fight. Yes, the same Miske Greb had already beaten twice 18 months and 2 years earlier. This was widely talked about in many newspapers of the day. Than Jack fights Tommy Gibbons in 1923 after Greb had already beaten Gibbons in 1922. Do you see a pattern here?

As far as anything Harry said after his final fight with Tunney, it really has no bearing here. If he said it he said it. It doesn't change the fact Greb was able to beat Tunney and Dempsey couldn't. I don't think you can say with any certainty the version of Tunney who beat Dempsey twice was better than the version who went 2-2-1 with Greb.

[Willie Pep 229]

You do realize it was three sparring sessions, right? It was also preparation for the Dempsey-Miske fight. Yes, the same Miske Greb had already beaten twice 18 months and 2 years earlier. This was widely talked about in many newspapers of the day. Than Jack fights Tommy Gibbons in 1923 after Greb had already beaten Gibbons in 1922. Do you see a pattern here?

As far as anything Harry said after his final fight with Tunney, it really has no bearing here. If he said it he said it. It doesn't change the fact Greb was able to beat Tunney and Dempsey couldn't. I don't think you can say with any certainty the version of Tunney who beat Dempsey twice was better than the version who went 2-2-1 with Greb.

No, there was no pattern, no conspiracy. Miske was a friend, and promoter Fitzsimmons was a friend. The Miske fight was Dempsey sharing his good fortune with his friends. (In those days a common act by HW Champions, e.g. Louis-Lewis, Jeffries-Corbett, ETC.)

Gibbons was chosen by the town of Shelby Montana who wanted a 'local boy' from the west. (Didn't Gibbons also win a NWS decision from Greb making them 1-1 in newspaper decisions?)

You forgot to mention Brennan, he's on the same list. He was Rickard's call.

Miske got the fight because he was Billy Miske, not because of who he did or didn't beat; Gibbons got the fight because he was born and lived in Minnesota.

Greb was at the training camp and available to spar because he was on the undercard for the Dempsey-Miske fight. Also note that Dempsey threw old Sam Langford a bone that night, setting him up with Bill Tate, a Dempsey friend yet again; Tate was on the undercard for the Brennan match as well. You never seem to notice the good things Dempsey did.

In 1920 Greb didn't have a name and was lucky he got the sparring sessions and a little ink. It helped him quite a bit and I'll bet his people did much mouthing off for the press.

No, Greb beat a 174 1/2 pound Tunney and then lost to him as Tunney grew in size and experience. . . . the Tunney Dempsey lost to, Greb was announcing he couldn't beat. It does matter.

Anyway just one man's opinion.

P.S. OK, so let's see, it was three sessions, and Greb was schooling Dempsey, and Doc Kearns being a complete moron let this happen two more times, in front of people? I doubt that! Sounds like hype to me.

[JAB5239]

No, there was no pattern, no conspiracy. Miske was a friend, and promoter Fitzsimmons was a friend. The Miske fight was Dempsey sharing his good fortune with his friends. (In those days a common act by HW Champions, e.g. Louis-Lewis, Jeffries-Corbett, ETC.)


Gibbons was chosen by the town of Shelby Montana who wanted a 'local boy' from the west. (Didn't Gibbons also win a NWS decision from Greb making them 1-1 in newspaper decisions?)

You forgot to mention Brennan, he's on the same list. He was Rickard's call.

Miske got the fight because he was Billy Miske, not because of who he did or didn't beat; Gibbons got the fight because he was born and lived in Minnesota.

Greb was at the training camp and available to spar because he was on the undercard for the Dempsey-Miske fight. Also note that Dempsey threw old Sam Langford a bone that night, setting him up with Bill Tate, a Dempsey friend yet again; Tate was on the undercard for the Brennan match as well. You never seem to notice the good things Dempsey did.

In 1920 Greb didn't have a name and was lucky he got the sparring sessions and a little ink. It helped him quite a bit and I'll bet his people did much mouthing off for the press.

No, Greb beat a 174 1/2 pound Tunney and then lost to him as Tunney grew in size and experience. . . . the Tunney Dempsey lost to, Greb was announcing he couldn't beat. It does matter.

Anyway just one man's opinion.

P.S. OK, so let's see, it was three sessions, and Greb was schooling Dempsey, and Doc Kearns being a complete moron let this happen two more times, in front of people? I doubt that! Sounds like hype to me.

Greb didn't have a name in 1920? That seems odd considering he beat several fighter (some more than once) that Dempsey would fight after that year. He had also already beaten Willie Meehan who had beaten Dempsey, was ducked by Carpentier and had beaten several other notable fighters of the day. To say Greb didn't have a name in 1920 is not true.

And it's not that I don't notice the good things Dempsey did. I just don't give him a pass for this. Same with Johnson not fighting Langford again. No pass.

Look at it this way. If Anthony Joshua were beating guys and Tyson Fury kept fighting those fighters Joshua already beat, but never made a fight with Joshua. He could argue there wasn't enough money or any other excuse, but it would still be seen as a duck.

[Willie Pep 229]

Greb didn't have a name in 1920? That seems odd considering he beat several fighter (some more than once) that Dempsey would fight after that year. He had also already beaten Willie Meehan who had beaten Dempsey, was ducked by Carpentier and had beaten several other notable fighters of the day. To say Greb didn't have a name in 1920 is not true.

And it's not that I don't notice the good things Dempsey did. I just don't give him a pass for this. Same with Johnson not fighting Langford again. No pass.

Look at it this way. If Anthony Joshua were beating guys and Tyson Fury kept fighting those fighters Joshua already beat, but never made a fight with Joshua. He could argue there wasn't enough money or any other excuse, but it would still be seen as a duck.

Agree on the Carpentier duck, but that was in 1922 after Greb beat Tunney. It's funny but Boxrec says that Rickard wired Carpentier a $150,000 guarantee offer to fight Greb, the day after Greb beat Tunney and that Carpentier's people begged off claiming he had two fights already signed. Thing is he would drop his LHW title to Battling Siki in his very next fight four months later.

I probably over stated regarding Greb's popularity (or lack thereof) but he doesn't fight in New York (MSG) until late 1921. On the Miske-Dempsey card (09/20) he only fought a six rounder against a guy he had already beaten just three weeks earlier, Chuck Wiggins, who had a 33-11 record. To me it looks like a showcase fight to introduce him to a bigger audience, then add in the press attended sparing sessions with Dempsey and you see what looks to be a promotional move into a bigger market. (Hey I wonder if they filmed the sparring sessions? Probably not, because it was Fitzsimmons promoting not Rickard.) Pittsburgh was a small town compared to New York, Philly and Chicago; he does indeed have, before 1921, many big names on his resume, but he is fighting them in Erie, Buffalo, Canton, and Wheeling with most being 8 and 10 round 'no decision' NWS fights.

In regards to Joshua, we, you and I, have a fundamental difference as to what is expected of a fighter. I say, best fight for the best money, and when it's over then that's his career. Judge him by the fights he has, not by what you think he was suppose to do.

[travestyny]

I've been reading and enjoying this lively sparring match between Willie and Jab. You guys both have great points, and kudos to you guys for keeping it respectful. Just my 2 cents:

Jab has very good points. It's known that Greb had a number of sparring encounters with Dempsey, and it seems to be the word that Greb got the best of them. Of course it was only sparring, but Greb seemed convinced that he could beat Dempsey pretty easily if he could stave off hitting the canvas. He thought Dempsey was pretty easy to hit, and thought he could get out of his way for up to about 15 rounds, if I remember correctly. Also, it's true that he had already beat guys that Dempsey later fought. Seems this fight should have happened.

But Willie has a great point as well. I tend to side with his argument that you have to follow the offers. It is, after all, prize fighting. The only offer I could find for the Dempsey Greb bout is the $100,000 offer that was mentioned. Apparently, Kearns was considering it but never responded, to the point that the offer was withdrawn because there wouldn't be enough time for the fight to come off. Was Kearns protecting Dempsey, or was it about more money? I can't say.

Some things to keep in mind. Greb defeating Gibbons was thought to have eliminated Gibbons from the Dempsey fight....yet it somehow didn't. That does seem a bit suspect. And at the same time, there was the public poll that Wills won regarding whom Dempsey should fight. Remember....Gibbons actually came in second during that poll. Some fighters who weren't even on the ballot, like Carpentier, had a good number of write-ins. What's interesting is that Greb didn't receive any love from the fans at all (one newspaper article mentioned Grebs' absence specifically from the poll.)

The question I have is....why weren't there more offers for Greb to fight Dempsey. Was it because the public wanted others for Dempsey? (Wills the most, and Gibbons in second place). Also, I guess it would be pertinent to discuss whether the $100,000 offer should have been enough. I can't really blame Dempsey for taking more if he could get it.

Dempsey, as champion, wasn't going to lobby for a Greb match (the only person I could understand him lobbying for would have been Wills). The public seemed to want something different, and the offers don't seem to be there for the Greb match. I think you have to follow the offers to really get an idea of who "ducked" whom, but I can understand why others feel even the champions should step up tot he plate and demand certain fighters (ie. Johnson/Langford--which I will selfishly plug and say he accepted 3 times...and Dempsey/Greb.). As for Dempsey/Wills, both arguments (following the offers and the boxers demanding a particular fighter) would condemn Dempsey, but that's another conversation.

[Dr. Z]

Hey Dr. Z, no one is going to believe anything else you say here after you've been exposed in the link below, you fraud


https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/n...-wills-footage


You're done. And it's over,.

Why doesn't surprise me the you have't seen the Greb training.

Show me where I said I had the full Wills fight, you are a LIAR ! I can ask 100x you just repost a quote that does not say I did.

For the 10th time, show me in print where I said this, not your lame reposting where I never said this and your interpretation of what was not said. You can't. You't wont You're a fraud. The best part about it is I know it, you know it, and most importantly I know that you know it.

I will offer you some footage of Wills vs Uzcudun, but only if you agree to leave the board forever.

It's really funny or sad. You think your some sort of expert, lying about stuff for what?

Now for a serious question. What boxer ever got credit for a win over a teenager or a fighter with a losing record, besides Jack Johnson as you consider these fights among his best three wins! You need your own duck icon. Try your best to answer without spin. I be back later on to count the ducks.

[travestyny]

Why doesn't surprise me the you have't seen the Greb training.

Show me where I said I had the full Wills fight, you are a LIAR ! I can ask 100x you just repost a quote that does not say I did.

For the 10th time, show me in print where I said this, not your lame reposting where I never said this and your interpretation of what was not said. You can't. You't wont You're a fraud. The best part about it is I know it, you know it, and most importantly I know that you know it.

I will offer you some footage of Wills vs Uzcudun, but only if you agree to leave the board forever.

It's really funny or sad. You think your some sort of expert, lying about stuff for what?

Now for a serious question. What boxer ever got credit for a win over a teenager or a fighter with a losing record, besides Jack Johnson as you consider these fights among his best three wins! You need your own duck icon. Try your best to answer without spin. I be back later on to count the ducks.

And it doesn't surprise me that you haven't seen any more of Wills vs. Firpo than was already posted on youtube, liar

Give it up already. Tell me what your post means, dumbo. You aren't fooling anyone .

Cleary I asked you how much you've seen beyond what is on youtube, and you said what? "Fights in my collection aren't for uploading."


Why would you say that? I know why? Because you're full of shlt and you were exposed! Stop trying to move the goalposts and accept you were EXPOSED!

Come on, bruh. How many minutes of the Firpo fight did you see?

If you have these full fights, post them up, because I've only managed to see edited pieces of two rounds against Firpo. In fact, I remember these three fights, along with training footage, all being packaged into 11 minutes.

How did you respond to that?

Hello there. Unfortunately some fights in my collection are not for uploading as those were the rules I agreed to when I obtained them.

Firpo looks awful, and Wills pretty average outside of the knockdown. Will looks pretty poor vs. Madden and that was was before Firpo.

I ALREADY SAID I'D ACCEPT ANYTHING FROM THE FIRPO AND MADDEN FIGHTS BEYOND WHAT IS ON YOUTUBE. YOU DUCKED IT. KEEP DUCKING, SON. EVERYONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED HERE. IT'S OVER.


PS. Too bad Clay couldn't come and help you out. LMAOOOO. You're an embarrassment.


And like I said, if you want fighters at or close to their prime, sub in Burns for McVea. But aint it rich that you are so interested in McVey's age but you keep bringing up Choynski beating a 22 year old 5-1 Jack Johnson Anything to fit your agenda, right???? LMAO

I don't have to explain my opinion to you. My opinion is that these guys (McVea, Jeannette, Langford) were better than anyone else out there even at the point when they fought Johnson and their records prove it. Look at their records over the next hundred fights or so after they fought Johnson. They proved to be the cream of the crop. You on the other hand, proved to be a ducking liar who can't let it go because you got exposed and your dream of being rescued by Clay failed IT'S OVER. You have been officially EXPOSED, chump!

And if you don't think young McVey was worthy....why did he make your idol shake in his boots. LMAOOOO.

ZicL8O.png



Wouldn't fight the young buck for a cool $20,000. Go figure

[GhostofDempsey]

Yet another thread that spins into a Dempsey duck thread. For one thing, Greb was a MW, and there was little to nothing for Dempsey to gain by fighting a MW. If he wins, and he likely does, everyone says he beat a smaller man, a MW. While that certainly worked in Johnson’s favor, it would not have done anything for Dempsey’s legacy. To say that Dempsey was willing to fight Tunney but ducked Greb is ridiculous. After Greg’s last fight with Tunney he conceded and insisted Tunney was the better man. His own words. If Dempsey was going to duck anyone, it wouldn’t be Greb.

[travestyny]

Oh...and by the way. Even with all your hate, this was the best you could do

1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb - Training clips only
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske - No film on, I think
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

LMAOOO. I know damn well this list wasn't based on resume, because if it were, WILLS would be at the top easily. You're done, son. When you want to come back at me with more of your Jack Johnson hate, I'll just point you here and laugh.


And I'm pretty sure it was you that said Dempsey's best win was a 3 years on the shelf Willard...with his hands laced with bicycle tape. So long, chump.

[JAB5239]

Yet another thread that spins into a Dempsey duck thread. For one thing, Greb was a MW, and there was little to nothing for Dempsey to gain by fighting a MW. If he wins, and he likely does, everyone says he beat a smaller man, a MW. While that certainly worked in Johnson’s favor, it would not have done anything for Dempsey’s legacy. To say that Dempsey was willing to fight Tunney but ducked Greb is ridiculous. After Greg’s last fight with Tunney he conceded and insisted Tunney was the better man. His own words. If Dempsey was going to duck anyone, it wouldn’t be Greb.

You do realize like 5 out of 7 fighters b(not exact numbers) Dempsey beat from 1919 on Greb had beaten, right? And anything Greb said about Tunney after their last fight is irrelevant. Styles make fight. Obviously Greb had a style that would bother Dempsey.