1967 Ali vs. 1971 Frazier

[Panthershock]

I would pick Ali by a close, but unanimous decision. Frazier was amazing that night, it was his peak, he fought the fight of his life and he never really was the same afterwards. He would prove a tough opponent for Ali even in his prime. However, that period of Ali's career was probably his worst pre Manila and getting old. He had to fight Frazier though because the Supreme Court hadn't heard his case yet and he was afraid he would go to jail for 5 years. As others had said Ali looked terrible against Bonavena and the Quarry fight stopped early due to a cut. Ali looked far better in 74 despite 3 years of aging. Prime Ali wouldnt have tired nearly as badly as Ali did in 71, especially with his legs. For the record I scored the fight 8-6-1 for Frazier, I forget exactly how I had it round for round but Frazier won the fight late (fyi I tend to favor boxers in my scoring) Ali would have built a points lead early, Joe comes back in the later rounds but is further behind than in 71 and not able to get to Ali as often. The final 5 rounds would have been amazing but Ali got too far ahead early and is able to pull out the win, with the biggest difference from 71 being Ali's legs.

[Schmerzen]

00:35-00:38 from this angle i can clearly see ali was an accurate and fast puncher.
and some ppl say ali was only running in the frst liston fight, thats why he won..

[SweetPbfAli]

That was a beautiful pull counter in the 2nd Liston fight.

[boxing boy]

That was a beautiful pull counter in the 2nd Liston fight.

Sonny took a dive in the 2nd fight.

[hayZ]

I think the greatest fight would have been a 1969 Ali with no lay-off vs 1971 Frazier.

Another question.....How would Joe Frazier do after a 3 1/2 year lay-off vs a Prime Ali?

It would be a massacre. Ali would stop him I believe in round 8-10

[Obama]

Sad how Ali was only 29, had 2 tune up fights against world class opposition, never took a career shortening beating in his career up until that point, but somehow still was past his prime against Smokin' Joe.

'71 Frazier beats any Ali, period.

[Vadrigar.]

Sad how Ali was only 29, had 2 tune up fights against world class opposition, never took a career shortening beating in his career up until that point, but somehow still was past his prime against Smokin' Joe.

'71 Frazier beats any Ali, period.

"Sad how Ali was only 29, had 2 tune up fights against world class opposition, never took a career shortening beating in his career up until that point, but somehow still was past his prime against Smokin' Joe." - what you presented here is circumstantial evidence. I have observed real hard physical evidence. It's more credible.


I think that three year lay of did something to him. He was not the same fighter in 1971.

His reflexes were numbed and he was not at the right weight in the frazier fight either. He looked flimsy and sluggish in the frazier fight. Most of the hooks frazier threw, he would have got out of the way from in 67.

More differences are stamina, speed and legs.

These are not excuses, they are clear facts. I recently watched ali-folley and ali-frazier I side to side and I was cringing at the sluggisness and lag of ali in the frazier fight.

Ali would have the legs to keep frazier off him for 12 rounds in 1967.

Just watch Ali-Foley and ali-frazier back to back and see the clear difference in lag and sluggishness.

Muhamamad ALi would UD frazier in 1967 easily. it wont be a problem.

[boxing boy]

Sad how Ali was only 29, had 2 tune up fights against world class opposition, never took a career shortening beating in his career up until that point, but somehow still was past his prime against Smokin' Joe.

'71 Frazier beats any Ali, period.

Lets put the shoe om the other foot.

If Joe Frazier just comes off a 3 1/2 year lay-off and fights a Prime(1966-67) Muhammad Ali?

BTW-We never saw Muhammad Ali during his best years.So how can you be so sure that a '71 Frazier beats Ali during his best years?

Yes,Muhammad Ali was only 29 years old with 2 tune-up fights when he fought Frazier in 1971.But his tune-up fight with Oscar Bonevena(The fight before Frazier) Ali looked terrible.He looked slow both with his hands and feet.His reflexes looked real slow.His timing,rythm,and punching accuracy was way off.His stamina was poor.He looked like a schell of the fighter before his 3 1/2 year lay-off in 1967.

In his other tune-up fight against Quarry he got lucky and won by a cut,because he said he was SHOCKED at how tired he was after only 3 rounds! He said he thought he would have probably lost had the fight gone 10-15 rounds.He only had 6 weeks to get ready after a 3 1/2 year lay-off!

Muhammad Ali kept saying again and again that he needed 2 more tune-up fights before he was ready to fight Frazier.He told this to Angelo Dundee,not the press.Away from the camera's Ali was not to sure he could beat Joe Frazier,he said he needed a couple more tune-up fights.Watch the Bonevena fight again my friend.

But Muhammad Ali could not take the chance and take a couple more tune-up fights before fighting Frazier because the Supreme Court said they were ready to give a decision "any day" on Muhammad Ali's appeal that he was convicted of refusing to join the military.So he had to take the fight with Frazier then!

It doesn't matter how old you are,when you are off 3 1/2 years your not going to be the same.It doesn't matter if your playing tiddly winks or ping pong.Nobody said that Ali was near the same fighter after watching him against Oscar Bonevena.

Again,put the shoe on the other foot.What if Joe Frazier was off 3 1/2 years,and had to fight a Prime(1966/67) Muhammad Ali? I would like to hear how you think that fight would have went?

[Obama]

You don't have to look good in a tune up fight. In fact you're supposed to be off. And who the hell needs 4 world class tune up fights? Most people only get 1 tune up fight these days, and it's generally against a bum. All those excuses are trash. If a 32 year Mayweather can look like a master after a 21 month lay off, a 29 year old Ali can look like one after two world class tune ups. Problem was Frazier was simply too good.

There's also the general rule that Heavyweights prime later period. Note how Wlad is still on top of his game at 34.

Anyways if you read what I said I wasn't here to argue whether the man was still prime or not. I just said it was sad that he wasn't. And it is sad, very very sad. He shoulda been better than that.

And as for the shoe on the other foot argument, don't care. I don't pretend Frazier is the greatest.

[Vadrigar.]

You don't have to look good in a tune up fight. In fact you're supposed to be off. And who the hell needs 4 world class tune up fights? Most people only get 1 tune up fight these days, and it's generally against a bum. All those excuses are trash. If a 32 year Mayweather can look like a master after a 21 month lay off, a 29 year old Ali can look like one after two world class tune ups. Problem was Frazier was simply too good.

There's also the general rule that Heavyweights prime later period. Note how Wlad is still on top of his game at 34.

Anyways if you read what I said I wasn't here to argue whether the man was still prime or not. I just said it was sad that he wasn't. And it is sad, very very sad. He shoulda been better than that.

And as for the shoe on the other foot argument, don't care. I don't pretend Frazier is the greatest.

All your presenting is circumstantial evidence. Real hard evidence is more credible. Why don't you actually OBSERVE the fighters, instead of quoting numbers?

why don't you compare the two tapes I mention side to side?
It's easy to notice many differences, which will become more pronounced the longer the two fights go.

Also look at the above poster: boxingboy