(Poll) SRR the greatest of all time? According to Ali - Yes!

[them_apples]

In fairness, though, you can make the same case for the record of practically any ATG one cares to name. Name the fighter and I can probably slice and dice his resume and make it look like ****e.

Poet

Yea true, I agree. which is why I still consider Ali's resume the best at HW. It's especially true for HW's. They all have huge blotches of ugly mixed in with the good.

[StarshipTrooper]

I give Dempsey a lot of heat, he was exciting but he fought in a really bad era. He lost to guys with 30+ losses and like you said, Willard was the top dog, aka Valuev version 1.

He always makes ATG lists and I don't know why any right minded "historian" could put him there.

I consider Dempsey an ATG.....but NOT p4p. In fact I tend to be leary of putting Heavyweights on p4p lists. Dempsey was a great fighter who fought with such skill and ferocity that 65 years later Mike Tyson openly patterned himself after him. Terrific resume? No, he fought in a weak era in a division known more for famine than for feast.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Yea true, I agree. which is why I still consider Ali's resume the best at HW. It's especially true for HW's. They all have huge blotches of ugly mixed in with the good.

Of course. The truth is it's pretty rare to have two ATG Heavyweights in their primes fighting at the same time: That makes it hard to build a top-notch resume and shows just how remarkable Ali's era really was.

Poet

[Southpaw16BF]

Ohh, the Manmachine wannabe is catching feelings.

First of all, you need to get off your obsession with "hall of fame fighters". There are many in there that don't belong in the same category as others in there. And most importantly, the HOF lacks and extreme amount of all time greats. So you need to spend less time posting youtube clips imitating Manmachine, and start realising there is a diffirence between a HOFer and an ALL TIME GREAT.

So no I will not remove any of those names off Ali's impressive Ws list. They were good wins PERIOD. Or do you only rate a fighter by how many wins he has over HOFers? You are a joke that's only trying to hype up the overrated SRR.

And I gave you a list of what Ali has done because this thread is debating who's the greatest. And you tell me I can't read?



And how in the blue hell does this mean Ali did not have the most impressive consistent record ever? Ali fought in the BEST era, a much better era than SRR's and he fought ALL of them. He only lost against an ALL TIME GREAT(get this, ATG not HOFer kiddo) Joe frazier after 3 YEARS of lay off in his prime years.

The rest of what you posted are merely opinions, not facts.

And yes Ali would murder SRR in a boxing match which means Ali could actually defeat any boxer in history, which you can't say about SRR.


Once again Ali's great wins:

George Foreman
Joe Frazier 2x
Sonny Liston 2x
Ken Norton 2x
Henry Cooper 2x
Floyd Patterson 2x
Ron Lyle
Jimmy Young
Earnie Shavers
George Chuvalo
Cleveland Williams
Ernie Terrel
Zora Folley
Jerry Quarry
Oscar Bonavena
Jimmy Ellis
Mac Foster
Buster Mathis
Earnie Terrell
Bob Foster
Joe Bugner
Chuck Wepner
Leon Spinks

This is almost 30 great wins in a career consisting of over 60 fights. NO comparison. Ali is not only the greatest fighter but also one of the greatest athletes in general, some even consider him THE greatest sportsman ever.

Are you soft, seriously? We all know Ali could of beat Robinson, because of the huge weight adavantage, but dimbo, this is why we judge on who is the best Pound for Pound fighter, we don't judge of who would beat who in fantasy fights. Your lack of knowlodge is so funny.

And it also funny how you call Chuck Wepner, Leon Spinks, Joe Bugner, Cleveland Williams, George Chuvalo-Great Wins. And yet you say to me I'am over hyping Ray Robinson........You must be joking

How is Ali's era much better than Robinson, oh wait is the difference because in Ali's era it had great fighters like George Chuvalo and Joe Bunger in it like you said.

It is to easy to make you look ****** on here, as you are really just a biased boxing fan, who hardly knows anything about the sport. The things you say are just so bogus and ****** it;s untrue, here's a few in the last hour.

Plus Ali would murder him in an actual boxing match so who's the greatest?

SRR gets the same idiotic biased support like Joe Louis

Oh and SRR has like 4 times the amount of fights Ali had as well as 4 times the amount of LOSSES Ali had

Each and every one of these post are so damn ****** and there that ****** they make me laugh.

Carry on to make a complete idiot of yourself.....

Nothing but a troll

[StarshipTrooper]

PFFT, yeah right. What wins can even compare to Ali's wins over George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle?

SRR gets the same idiotic biased support like Joe Louis.

Meanwhile Ali has idiotic hateful Docu's made about him and people assume the old "Ali was only the greatest because he said so himself" completely disregarding the mans accomplishments which no Boxer in history can stand up to.

You might want to take a look at your own bias: You're LRR in reverse. While LRR tries to discredit Ali and Holmes (especially Ali) for reasons only he himself knows, you're doing the EXACT same thing first with Joe Louis and now with Ray Robinson. Bias works both ways. You have accused me of having a bias towards Louis for no other reason than you saw me make a favorable post about him.....so I guess everyone who doesn't think Louis is trash is biased huh? I bet you've never bothered to look at any of the Heavyweight ATG lists I've posted. Guess who I have consistantly rated at #1. Why that would be Muhammed Ali.

You can try to smear Manchine and Southpaw until you're blue in the face: You WILL lose that war. Badly.

Poet

[Southpaw16BF]

Doesn't really matter what other fighters say to each other, it means nothing.
Liston said stuff about rocky being unbeatable, but would you pick Rocky over Liston?

Robinson has a strong case for being one of the best (or best) WW in history, but at middleweight i don't think so. Hagler would stop him, Hopkins would UD or in his prime possibly a stoppage, Monzon? Debatable. I think Robinson is getting too highly rated here at middleweight. At WW, he's def within the top 3.

Once again you are wrong, did I say he was the best Middlweight of all time, did I? No I say most of the boxing world consider it him, I never said it was him. For example in the 1994 issue of Ring Magazine they rated him the greatest Middlweight ever.

And your making out like its fact that Hagler would stop him, at his prime at 160, Ray was brillant and I feel could of beat Hagler, and I highly dout Hagler could stop him.

[Slimey Limey]

You are close to tears now kid. Haha, you're giving up now as barely any of what you just wrote has anything to do with the argument, just complaints about me as a poster. So you're the one that's trolling now mate.

If you feel like giving it another shot I made a poll in NSB section

[Obama]

Once again Ali's great wins:

George Foreman
Joe Frazier 2x
Sonny Liston 2x
Ken Norton 2x
Henry Cooper 2x
Floyd Patterson 2x
Ron Lyle
Jimmy Young
Earnie Shavers
George Chuvalo
Cleveland Williams
Ernie Terrel
Zora Folley
Jerry Quarry
Oscar Bonavena
Jimmy Ellis
Mac Foster
Buster Mathis
Earnie Terrell
Bob Foster
Joe Bugner
Chuck Wepner
Leon Spinks

You listed everyone credible he fought basically...You'd get more than that amount of names if you did it for SRR, other guys just listed his HOF wins. I don't have a list like this done for SRR, but I do have it for some other Heavyweights that is quite comparable:

Joe Louis
Notable Wins:
Charley Massera
Lee Ramage (x2)
Patsy Perroni
Don “Red” Barry
Natie Brown
Roy Lazer
Primo Carnera
King Levinsky
Max Baer
Paulino Uzcudun
Charley Retzlaff
Jack Sharkey
Al Ettore
Bob Pastor (x2)
Jim Braddock
Tommy Farr
Nathan Mann
Max Schmeling
John Henry Louis
“Two Ton” Toney Galento
Arturo Godoy (x2)
Johnny Paycheck
Red Burman
Gus Dorazio
Abe Simon (x2)
Tony Musto
Buddy Baer (x2)
Billy Conn (x2)
Lou Nova
Tami Mauriello
Jersey Joe Walcott (x2)
Lee Savold
Jimmy Bivins

Jack Johnson
Notable Wins:
Frank Childs (x2)
George Gardner
Denver Ed Martin (x2)
Sam McVea (x3)
Sandy Ferguson (x3)
Black Bill (x4)
Jim Jeffords (x2)
Jack Munroe
Morris Harris
Joe Jeannette (x3)
Sam Langford
Bob Fitzsimmons
Tommy Burns
Tony Ross
Al Kaufman
James J. Jeffries
Frank Moran
Tom Cowler
Jack Thompson

Harry Wills
Notable Wins:
Sam Langford (x13)
Joe Jeannette (x2)
Willie Meehan
Sailor Grande
John Lester Johnson (x3)
Sam McVea (x2)
Jeff Clark (x8)
Bill Tate (x4)
Jack Thompson (x6)
Fred Fulton
Gunboat Smith
Kid Norfolk
Tut Jackson
Bartley Madden
Luis Angel Firpo
Charley Weinert
Floyd Johnson

Sam Langford
Notable Wins:
Joe Jeannette (x8)
Jim Barry (x7)
Sandy Ferguson
John Wille (x2)
Tony Ross (x2)
Morris Harris (x2)
Al Kubiak (x2)
John Klon***e Haines
Mike Schreck
Stanley Ketchel
Battling Jim Johnson (x9)
Jeff Clark (x5)
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Sam McVea (x6)
Porky Dan Flynn (x2)
John Lester Johnson
Tom McMahon
Harry Wills (x2)
Gunboat Smith
Jack Thompson (x4)
Bill Tate (x4)
Andre Anderson
Kid Norfolk
Tiny Jim Herman
Frank Farmer
George Godfrey (x2)
Lee Anderson (x2)
Bearcat Wright (x3)
Tut Jackson (x2)
Tiger Flowers

[Slimey Limey]

You listed everyone credible he fought basically...You'd get more than that amount of names if you did it for SRR, other guys just listed his HOF wins. I don't have a list like this done for SRR, but I do have it for some other Heavyweights that is quite comparable:

Joe Louis
Notable Wins:
Charley Massera
Lee Ramage (x2)
Patsy Perroni
Don “Red” Barry
Natie Brown
Roy Lazer
Primo Carnera
King Levinsky
Max Baer
Paulino Uzcudun
Charley Retzlaff
Jack Sharkey
Al Ettore
Bob Pastor (x2)
Jim Braddock
Tommy Farr
Nathan Mann
Max Schmeling
John Henry Louis
“Two Ton” Toney Galento
Arturo Godoy (x2)
Johnny Paycheck
Red Burman
Gus Dorazio
Abe Simon (x2)
Tony Musto
Buddy Baer (x2)
Billy Conn (x2)
Lou Nova
Tami Mauriello
Jersey Joe Walcott (x2)
Lee Savold
Jimmy Bivins

Jack Johnson
Notable Wins:
Frank Childs (x2)
George Gardner
Denver Ed Martin (x2)
Sam McVea (x3)
Sandy Ferguson (x3)
Black Bill (x4)
Jim Jeffords (x2)
Jack Munroe
Morris Harris
Joe Jeannette (x3)
Sam Langford
Bob Fitzsimmons
Tommy Burns
Tony Ross
Al Kaufman
James J. Jeffries
Frank Moran
Tom Cowler
Jack Thompson

Harry Wills
Notable Wins:
Sam Langford (x13)
Joe Jeannette (x2)
Willie Meehan
Sailor Grande
John Lester Johnson (x3)
Sam McVea (x2)
Jeff Clark (x8)
Bill Tate (x4)
Jack Thompson (x6)
Fred Fulton
Gunboat Smith
Kid Norfolk
Tut Jackson
Bartley Madden
Luis Angel Firpo
Charley Weinert
Floyd Johnson

Sam Langford
Notable Wins:
Joe Jeannette (x8)
Jim Barry (x7)
Sandy Ferguson
John Wille (x2)
Tony Ross (x2)
Morris Harris (x2)
Al Kubiak (x2)
John Klon***e Haines
Mike Schreck
Stanley Ketchel
Battling Jim Johnson (x9)
Jeff Clark (x5)
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Sam McVea (x6)
Porky Dan Flynn (x2)
John Lester Johnson
Tom McMahon
Harry Wills (x2)
Gunboat Smith
Jack Thompson (x4)
Bill Tate (x4)
Andre Anderson
Kid Norfolk
Tiny Jim Herman
Frank Farmer
George Godfrey (x2)
Lee Anderson (x2)
Bearcat Wright (x3)
Tut Jackson (x2)
Tiger Flowers

Actually I listed the best wins Ali had based on the quality of opposition.

[Slimey Limey]

You might want to take a look at your own bias: You're LRR in reverse. While LRR tries to discredit Ali and Holmes (especially Ali) for reasons only he himself knows, you're doing the EXACT same thing first with Joe Louis and now with Ray Robinson. Bias works both ways. You have accused me of having a bias towards Louis for no other reason than you saw me make a favorable post about him.....so I guess everyone who doesn't think Louis is trash is biased huh? I bet you've never bothered to look at any of the Heavyweight ATG lists I've posted. Guess who I have consistantly rated at #1. Why that would be Muhammed Ali.

You can try to smear Manchine and Southpaw until you're blue in the face: You WILL lose that war. Badly.

Poet

Actually I don't discredit Joe Louis or Ray Robinson. I just point out how they are very overrated because they are frequently reffered to as greatest Heavyweight ever and Greatest fighter ever even though Ali holds the right to BOTH of those titles.

And I don't consider you having a bias for Louis because you made a favorable post about him. It was more on the lines of you making nothing but favorable posts about him. You see no flaws in him, even though he is.

And btw mate, I already won those wars.