Bernard Hopkins Vs Sonny Liston

[Kid McCoy]

Dempsey did far worse, he lost to even bigger bums than Tyson did. Even his big "wins" were against pretty sub par competition. Jess Willard? lol come on..anyone here see "Valuev"

Out of interest, which bums did Dempsey lose to?

[them_apples]

Out of interest, which bums did Dempsey lose to?

go look at boxrec, he lost to a guy with 9 wins and 7 losses.

Imagine if a guy like Holmes or Foreman lost to a guy like that, we would never hear the end of it.

Jim Flynn koed him in 1 round.

[Kid McCoy]

go look at boxrec, he lost to a guy with 9 wins and 7 losses.

Imagine if a guy like Holmes or Foreman lost to a guy like that, we would never hear the end of it.

Jim Flynn koed him in 1 round.

What, a 4 round decision in his first year as a pro, when he was literally a hungry fighter? I think he can be forgiven that blemish.

As an aside to that, Boxrec's records of old-timers are very incomplete. A guy with a 0-0-0 record doesn't necessarily mean he'd never had a pro fight, just none on their database.

The Flynn fight is very controversial. Information about the fight is contradictory, and many believe Dempsey tanked it for the price of a meal. See this article, for instance:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/dempsey_dive.html

When they met a year later, Dempsey KO'd Flynn in one round.

Boxrec is a wonderful tool, but without some context and background knowledge it proves nothing.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

But the only thing is when Ezzard fought The Rock, he was way past his prime and it wasn't the Charles who had just stepped up from LHW, going into that fight in his last 4 he'd won 2 and lost 2, against Nino Valdes who at the time was 22-9-3, and then Harold Johnsen 41-5-0, who he had already beaten previsouly.

True, true. In Hopkins last 6 he's won 3 and lost 3 though.

[them_apples]

What, a 4 round decision in his first year as a pro, when he was literally a hungry fighter? I think he can be forgiven that blemish.

As an aside to that, Boxrec's records of old-timers are very incomplete. A guy with a 0-0-0 record doesn't necessarily mean he'd never had a pro fight, just none on their database.

The Flynn fight is very controversial. Information about the fight is contradictory, and many believe Dempsey tanked it for the price of a meal. See this article, for instance:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/dempsey_dive.html

When they met a year later, Dempsey KO'd Flynn in one round.

Boxrec is a wonderful tool, but without some context and background knowledge it proves nothing.

doesn't change the fact that he was koed in 1 round, he wasn't even old or past it. If he "tanked it" that shows how unproffessional of a fighter he was. That's like me saying a guy like Tyson lost to Douglas because he wasn't taking training seriously and was a drug addict.

where as a guy like Holyfield to this day always comes in shape.

[Kid McCoy]

doesn't change the fact that he was koed in 1 round, he wasn't even old or past it. If he "tanked it" that shows how unproffessional of a fighter he was. That's like me saying a guy like Tyson lost to Douglas because he wasn't taking training seriously and was a drug addict.

Again, you have to know the circumstances. If you hadn't eaten for days, and someone offered you twice as much money to throw a fight, what would you do? Just like when Jake LaMotta was told he'd have to throw a fight for the mob or forget about his title shot. In those circumstances, I don't hold it against them.

[KostyaTszyu44]

Again, you have to know the circumstances. If you hadn't eaten for days, and someone offered you twice as much money to throw a fight, what would you do? Just like when Jake LaMotta was told he'd have to throw a fight for the mob or forget about his title shot. In those circumstances, I don't hold it against them.

yeah alot of people give lamotta **** for throwing that fight but man so many prominent fighters threw fights back then, lamotta was just the only one who was brave enough to admit it

[JAB5239]

yeah alot of people give lamotta **** for throwing that fight but man so many prominent fighters threw fights back then, lamotta was just the only one who was brave enough to admit it

But the thing is many didn't throw the fight out of sheer greed, but to literally feed themselves and their families (Dempsey) or to get a chance they otherwise earned but would never rightfully get (LaMotta). Im sure you know this KT, but this is what Kid McCoy means when he talks about understanding the circumstances.

[Southpaw16BF]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;4766308]

True, true. In Hopkins last 6 he's won 3 and lost 3 though.

But lets look at those wins and losses, two losses against Jermain Taylor(who at the time was(24-0-0) in which he definatly derserved the second one and both were very close fights in which he could of got, and going it that he was on his 22d defence of his IBFtitle.

His next loss came against undfeated 44-0 Joe Calzaghe, in another razor sharp close decision, in a fight were he dropped Calzaghe and again alot of people thought he should of got.

So when you look into these losses, he losing fights that he easily could of went his way, against world class oppostion, and he's not even getting beat up or even beat convincenly.

And then you look at his wins
.Antonio Tarver-At The Time-Ring 175 Champion, #1 LHW in the world, Hopkins beat's him rather easy, in his first fight at 175 (since his debut against Clinton Mitchell)

.Ronald ''Winky'' Wright-At the time was a top 5 P4P fighter, had not been beat in 7 years,and was coming in with a dominating win over Ike Quartey. Hopkins beats rather comfortable with scores of 112-116, 111-117,111-117.

.Kelly Pavlik- At the time was best middlweight in the world, around number 7 in the P4P rating, was undefeated with a record of 34-0-0 with 30 ko's, and was 26 years of age. Hopkens virtually wipe washes him and puts on a boxing clinic.

So by stat Bernard Hopkins has in his last 6 fights won 3 lose 3, but when you look it to them like i've just done, his losses could have all went his way as the fights were that close, and his wins were all against at the time pound for pound fighters, and world class oppostion.

And the fights that he did lose were all against unbeaten fighter at the time, and a pound for pounder.

And also going into that fight, the boxing world knew Charles was way past his best, and knew he was not near his LHW days. And if Hopkins were to of moved up to fight the Rock at the time , Hopkins would of been much more in his prime than Ezzard.

[sleazyfellow]

this benard ball sucking has to stop sometime, this fight would be a joke, liston would murder him.