Bernard Hopkins Vs Sonny Liston

[TheGreatA]

But lets look at those wins and losses, two losses against Jermain Taylor(who at the time was(24-0-0) in which he definatly derserved the second one and both were very close fights in which he could of got, and going it that he was on his 22d defence of his IBFtitle.

His next loss came against undfeated 44-0 Joe Calzaghe, in another razor sharp close decision, in a fight were he dropped Calzaghe and again alot of people thought he should of got.

So when you look into these losses, he losing fights that he easily could of went his way, against world class oppostion, and he's not even getting beat up or even beat convincenly.


And also going into that fight, the boxing world knew Charles was way past his best, and knew he was not near his LHW days. And if Hopkins were to of moved up to fight the Rock at the time , Hopkins would of been much more in his prime than Ezzard.

Then again Ezzard Charles had only lost to Nino Valdes and Harold Johnson by close decisions which could've gone his way as well. He had recent wins over Bob Satterfield, Rex Layne, Jimmy Bivins and Coley Wallace.

People thought he was past it but only because of how great he was in his prime. It's not like he had been dominated in his losses and he was still good enough to beat most of the top men, like Hopkins right now.


Charles vs Satterfield


Charles vs Wallace


Charles vs Layne III


Charles vs Marciano

[JAB5239]

And also going into that fight, the boxing world knew Charles was way past his best, and knew he was not near his LHW days. And if Hopkins were to of moved up to fight the Rock at the time , Hopkins would of been much more in his prime than Ezzard.

Im not going to tear Hopkins down for the sake of argument. But just answer me these questions. We all know who Rocky beat and what he was capable of at heavyweight. How do we know how an aging Hopkins would do against him? After all, was he not gassed in the 11th and 12th agaist Calzaghe? Who has Hop fought that would come close to the strength or ability to bring pressure like Marciano?

Like I told Apples, my argument is based on what has actually been done, not an assumption of what I think may happen.

[Southpaw16BF]

Im not going to tear Hopkins down for the sake of argument. But just answer me these questions. We all know who Rocky beat and what he was capable of at heavyweight. How do we know how an aging Hopkins would do against him? After all, was he not gassed in the 11th and 12th agaist Calzaghe? Who has Hop fought that would come close to the strength or ability to bring pressure like Marciano?

Like I told Apples, my argument is based on what has actually been done, not an assumption of what I think may happen.

Hopkins would of fought no one with the strength of Marcaino, But when Michael Spinks moved to take on Larry Holmes he had never fought no one as strong or as big as Larry, there was a 22 pound weight gap. Or when Spinks fought Cooney, Spinks hadn't fought no one with Cooney's strength or punching power at the time.

Hopkins like Spinks at all the other all time greats who have stepped on there first try will be taking a huge risk.

And i think it was more Hopkins trying to steal against Calzaghe in the 11th and 12th rounds, because as he proved in fights with Pavlik he was coming on pretty strong at the end, and with no signs of tire.

[Southpaw16BF]

Then again Ezzard Charles had only lost to Nino Valdes and Harold Johnson by close decisions which could've gone his way as well. He had recent wins over Bob Satterfield, Rex Layne, Jimmy Bivins and Coley Wallace.

People thought he was past it but only because of how great he was in his prime. It's not like he had been dominated in his losses and he was still good enough to beat most of the top men, like Hopkins right now.


Charles vs Satterfield


Charles vs Wallace


Charles vs Layne III


Charles vs Marciano

The same Nino Valdes, who in his last 6 fights had lost 4,two being against Archie Moore and Harlod Johnson no shame in that, but the other 2 being against Billy Gilliam who at the time was 28-15-2, and Bill Baker who was 29-2-1 and after Baker had beat Valdes, the fight after he would go on to be Ko'd in the 1st round against Bob Satterfield 30-14-2.

So yes you could say he was past his prime, no matter how good he was at his LHW days, and i think it was more due to the fact the Marciano never had loads of compititon aorund for him, so the best about was great fighters past there prime. As many people say.`

[JAB5239]

Hopkins would of fought no one with the strength of Marcaino, But when Michael Spinks moved to take on Larry Holmes he had never fought no one as strong or as big as Larry, there was a 22 pound weight gap. Or when Spinks fought Cooney, Spinks hadn't fought no one with Cooney's strength or punching power at the time.

Cooney had 3 fights in the 5 years between Holmes and Spinks and was no longer considered a contender, only a name.

Holmes was also 36 and had been champ for 7 years and many still think he won those fights.

Hopkins would be the old man in any scenerio given and still isn't battle tested at 175 like Spinks was.

Hopkins like Spinks at all the other all time greats who have stepped on there first try will be taking a huge risk.

And i think it was more Hopkins trying to steal against Calzaghe in the 11th and 12th rounds, because as he proved in fights with Pavlik he was coming on pretty strong at the end, and with no signs of tire.

Pavlik had no resistance to offer, Joe did. Just as Rocky, Louis, Liston, Lewis and any other heavyweight great you can name would.

[TheGreatA]

The same Nino Valdes, who in his last 6 fights had lost 4,two being against Archie Moore and Harlod Johnson no shame in that, but the other 2 being against Billy Gilliam who at the time was 28-15-2, and Bill Baker who was 29-2-1 and after Baker had beat Valdes, the fight after he would go on to be Ko'd in the 1st round against Bob Satterfield 30-14-2.

So yes you could say he was past his prime, no matter how good he was at his LHW days, and i think it was more due to the fact the Marciano never had loads of compititon aorund for him, so the best about was great fighters past there prime. As many people say.`

The same 6'3, 210 lb Nino Valdes who went onto become the number 1 ranked heavyweight contender for the next 2 years after beating Charles.

Bob Baker was a good fighter and a top ranked heavyweight. He got caught by Satterfield but then again a lot of people did. Satterfield was pound for pound one of the hardest hitters of all time.

I'd pick the 32 year old Ezzard Charles who fought Marciano to beat the 43 year old Hopkins who fought Calzaghe.

[Southpaw16BF]

The same 6'3, 210 lb Nino Valdes who went onto become the number 1 ranked heavyweight contender for the next 2 years after beating Charles.

Bob Baker was a good fighter and a top ranked heavyweight. He got caught by Satterfield but then again a lot of people did. Satterfield was pound for pound one of the hardest hitters of all time.

I'd pick the 32 year old Ezzard Charles who fought Marciano to beat the 43 year old Hopkins who fought Calzaghe.

Well maybe if you go and read Rock Of His Times, it will tell you Rock wasn't round at the best of times of heavyweights and yes Charles best days were behind him, and a 43 Bernard Hopkins is more in his prime that a 32 year old Ezzard Charles was.

You thought by putting Hopkins age, its more of a advantage for Charles. But Beranrd Hopkins isn't your average 43 year old.

And yes Baker did go on to be a good fighter, but that was in the future i'am talking about that present time.

And don't you also think Chris Arreloa would outbox a prime George Foreman?
Enough Said.

[TheGreatA]

Well maybe if you go and read Rock Of His Times, it will tell you Rock wasn't round at the best of times of heavyweights and yes Charles best days were behind him, and a 43 Bernard Hopkins is more in his prime that a 32 year old Ezzard Charles was.

You thought by putting Hopkins age, its more of a advantage for Charles. But Beranrd Hopkins isn't your average 43 year old.

And yes Baker did go on to be a good fighter, but that was in the future i'am talking about that present time.

I never said Marciano was around the best heavyweight era.

Hopkins isn't the average 43 year old but Ezzard Charles would've beaten him. Even a past prime version of Charles.

And don't you also think Chris Arreloa would outbox a prime George Foreman?
Enough Said.

Sure do.

[Southpaw16BF]

I never said Marciano was around the best heavyweight era.

Hopkins isn't the average 43 year old but Ezzard Charles would've beaten him. Even a past prime version of Charles.



Sure do.

It's pretty hard to take you serious with the Foreman the comment.

[TheGreatA]

It's pretty hard to take you serious with the Foreman the comment.

Maybe you shouldn't.