rocky marciano vs bernard hopkins

[Knighte]

LOL I'm just trying to help you out, because you need it if you actually think that Marciano would get a bigger Liston to fold under pressure. Ali frustrated him with with jab and foot speed. Marciano would not be coming at Liston, soaking up his punches and keep coming forward? Its just something that i don't see.

I feel that Bonevena (who i feel is one of the most underrated heavyweights of all time) would most likely do better because of his better boxing ability and defense. Rocky gets blown out.

The only thing I'll concede to is that Liston stood a hell of a better chance at defeating Marciano than Bernard Hopkins (the subject of this ridiculous thread.)

But just as you cannot see Marciano wading through Liston's punches (and how many of those would've landed flush), I cannot see Liston having an answer for a guy who could punch with the same authority himself and was basically impervious to mortal conditions like fatigue, pain or fear.

[them_apples]

The only thing I'll concede to is that Liston stood a hell of a better chance at defeating Marciano than Bernard Hopkins (the subject of this ridiculous thread.)

But just as you cannot see Marciano wading through Liston's punches (and how many of those would've landed flush), I cannot see Liston having an answer for a guy who could punch with the same authority himself and was basically impervious to mortal conditions like fatigue, pain or fear.

I think Liston would knock him spark out, and early. Marciano never faced anyone close to his league. I said 10 before, now I'm thinking 5.

you are making Marciano out to be a defensive master, the guy blocked punches with his face.

[Madvillain]

Rocky was a great champion in his era. But boxing has evolved so much that I can't see any way in hell that Marciano would have been able to figure Hopkins' style out. He would charge forward and B-Hop would use Rock for target practice all night long.

[Knighte]

"I've got every Marciano fight on DVD and have watched them numerous times, all I have to say is that Rocky is completely underrated by people that can't look beyond his measurements, he was about the same size as Tua only he intentionally weighed less. Marciano could easily have fought at 220 lbs. (that is what he walked around at) but he preferred to fight at 188 because he didn't lose his power at that weight and this gave him a HUGE stamina advantage over every other fighter. The Rock's stamina was so good that I counted close to 100 power punches thrown at Charles in the 15th round of a brutal war."


- "Duke" from KON

Those are some excellent observations. People today have difficulty comprehending a guy like Marciano; he is just so alien to their way of thinking, to their idea of what a fighter is all about. You really have to watch his matches in order to get an accurate picture.

[them_apples]

Those are some excellent observations. People today have difficulty comprehending a guy like Marciano; he is just so alien to their way of thinking, to their idea of what a fighter is all about. You really have to watch his matches in order to get an accurate picture.

he wasn't anywhere near as big as Tua, sorry. I should also point out that Tua is often looked at as a smaller heavyweight.

Tua in his prime was 225 lbs, and he wasn't that fat. Being generous and saying 10 lbs of that is fat, he's still got 25 lbs to go.

Marciano wasn't quick ether, a lot of good that so called weight cutting did.

no way did Rocky have 30 inch thighs.



this is Tua at 230, you are telling me he could cut 40 lbs and still be healthy? he looks to be at about 10% body fat. Marciano probably was about 5-6% on fight night, still doesn't put him anywhere near Tuas size.

[slicksouthpaw16]

The only thing I'll concede to is that Liston stood a hell of a better chance at defeating Marciano than Bernard Hopkins (the subject of this ridiculous thread.)

Liston WOULD have beaten Marciano. Just look at their sizes, power and ability. Sonny was 6'0 with about an 84 or 85 inch reach. He had two ways of winning, he could pick the smaller and shorter Marciano off with his long left jab and do it technical, or he could just go in and end the fight whenever he wanted to, because IMO he would be in that much control. The Patterson fight showed how being smaller than Liston, crouching and lunging would get you annihilated against him. He would simply push off and keep on throwing accurate combination's.

But just as you cannot see Marciano wading through Liston's punches (and how many of those would've landed flush), I cannot see Liston having an answer for a guy who could punch with the same authority himself and was basically impervious to mortal conditions like fatigue, pain or fear.

Rocky did not punch with the same authority as Liston and hes never fought anyone that punches as hard. Hes been down by light heavyweights by like Moore and early at that, i see Liston being physically big and strong enough to keep him there. I also hope that you don't believe that Rocky's defense was underrated. I actually heard Moore state( on the ESPN panel discussion on Marciano's career) that Rocky was not hard to hit, he just didn't care. As stated, Ali frustrated Sonny because he didn't have a target to hit and he was the one who was being hit back, and threw him off and he never got into his rhythm. Marciano would not only be an easy target against Liston but also one that's a lot shorter, crouching low and squared up. I just can't imagine how being a shorter inside fighter would be effective against him. I don't see this fight going past 3 to be honest if that. Rocky is a great fighter, but Liston couldn't be a more wronger style for him.

[StarshipTrooper]

Why would anyone match a Middleweight versus a Heavyweight unless its a
p4p matchup?

Poet

[elfag]

It makes things difficult to predict as Hopkins was in his 40s when he finally went to 175 (and was thus weighing 180s at fight night). Hopkins lost his later fights based on low output to guys who could out work him. Obviously this version of Hopkins doesnt have a chance against Marciano who is slightly bigger, with power and great output.

If you look back at a more active Hopkins in his younger days at 160, he didnt have the problems with output and could go in there and trade and be very effective like in the Echols fights. Of course the problem is that his competition back at 160 was not that great. Cant exactly compare a performance against Echols at 160 to what he would have been like at 180+ against Marciano.

The easy answer is Marciano as he has too many advantages and you really have to piece together different qualities of Hopkins from different stages of his career to make him competitive against Marciano.

Only question left is can Marciano knock him out? Weve never seen Hopkins in serious trouble or even hurt really. He has so many tricks (many illegal and dirty) up his sleeves to slow down his opponent and prevent them from landing cleanly consistently on him. If we assume Hopkins is in best condition with top stamina, then I think he can use his usual tricks to make it to the end of the fight without being in serious trouble.

[them_apples]

Liston WOULD have beaten Marciano. Just look at their sizes, power and ability. Sonny was 6'0 with about an 84 or 85 inch reach. He had two ways of winning, he could pick the smaller and shorter Marciano off with his long left jab and do it technical, or he could just go in and end the fight whenever he wanted to, because IMO he would be in that much control. The Patterson fight showed how being smaller than Liston, crouching and lunging would get you annihilated against him. He would simply push off and keep on throwing accurate combination's.



Rocky did not punch with the same authority as Liston and hes never fought anyone that punches as hard. Hes been down by light heavyweights by like Moore and early at that, i see Liston being physically big and strong enough to keep him there. I also hope that you don't believe that Rocky's defense was underrated. I actually heard Moore state( on the ESPN panel discussion on Marciano's career) that Rocky was not hard to hit, he just didn't care. As stated, Ali frustrated Sonny because he didn't have a target to hit and he was the one who was being hit back, and threw him off and he never got into his rhythm. Marciano would not only be an easy target against Liston but also one that's a lot shorter, crouching low and squared up. I just can't imagine how being a shorter inside fighter would be effective against him. I don't see this fight going past 3 to be honest if that. Rocky is a great fighter, but Liston couldn't be a more wronger style for him.

good post, I agree Liston would bust Rocky up.

Might want to check your grammar though on "wronger". Normally I'm not one to care but that's just..erm...wrong

-apples

[MANGLER]

Hopkins was a MW in his prime.