Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[travestyny]

Study up on Montreal - get back to me - Kearns was using it as a red herring to keep Rickard and the NYSAC running down rabbit holes.

Never intended to have the fight never intended to have any fight where Rickard would get his hand in the pie - thus Shelby Montana.

Kearns was determined to get all the proceeds for the next fight after having egg on his face for demanding the flat rate of 300K when the % Rickard offered would have been 487K (for the Carpentier fight) according the the news guys who did the math and then embarrassed Kearns in ink.

You yourself stated that he pissed off Rickard's people with his in and out - which he pulled several times, not just with Montréal, between fall 1921 and spring 1923.

You want so bad to make this a damnation of Dempsey's character that you won't acknowledge that Doc Kearns between 1919 and 1925 was the 'decider' of all things Dempsey, whether it be Jeannette, the Wills nultuplie 'almost' contacts (1922), or Montreal.

You don't understand Kearns, you haven't study Kearns.

Learn Kearns vs. Rickard and you'll see how Montréal fits in.

Montréal was such a roost that Dempsey, three days after the fight had already fell through, exclaimed to the press that he would never take the Montréal fight because he would have time to prepare. Three days after it was off.

Point is Kearns floated and watched the Montréal fight sink without even advising Dempsey it might happen.

All of my conjecture is supported by a study of Kearns travels, behaviors, and eventual deal with Shelby Montana.

Funny 100 years ago he had Rickard, Wills people, and the NYSAC chasing their tails. Now 100 years later he got's you buying into his BS games, because it fits your agenda of a coward Dempsey.

Along with Montréal there were three different times in New York where Kearns said he would sign with Wills and then begged off with technicalities and one time leaving town and not even showing up for the meeting (which the press claimed 'was a definite go this time' lol).

Then there was the Jack Johson roost for one million in Mexico City, which I have pointed out previously, Kearns never got further south than San Francisco.

Then there was the bogus Greb fight which Kearns surfaced in challenge to the NYSAC's threat to strip Dempsey of the title. Thus Kearns threatened to take Dempsey to Pittsbugh, talked with a local promoter (all covered by the press) and then on the exact day the NYSAC was suspose to strip Dempsey (the deadline) and didn't, Kearns announced the Greb fight off.

You don't know Kearns you don't know Dempsey.

Could you really understand Ali (post suspension) without understanding Don King.

Could you really understand the carreer of Mike Tyson without understanding Don King?

You want so bad to make this about Dempsey being afraid of Black men that you have no perception or depth.

LMAO. Passing the buck yet again, are we


First of all, you told me that it was Wills who didn't want this scrap. You have since quieted down about that and now it's Kearns fault. Anyone but Dempsey,


But ahemmmmmm. Excuse me. Wasn't it Dempsey himself who declined, saying he couldn't get in shape in time?


After it was off???? No buddy. How about the reason he gave to decline which is why they were pissed at him.


That's what happened, wasn't it?????? Wasn't it??????????????


I hope you enjoy this. Study up and come back so I can have another good laugh

Ready for Carpentier at any time. Oh...Wills......no thanks. lol
Poor Willie. Still can't face reality. How does it feel living in MendaCity, hmmm?




The truth of the matter is simply this. If Dempsey wanted this fight, he could have had this fight. If the public wanted this fight, that means there was no barrier. NY Commissioners that you slandered agreed that there was no barrier. There was definitely money for it. Dempsey is more than complicit because everyone whom you accuse of being at fault worked for him. He fired them when he wanted and came back when he wanted. So save your bullshlt for someone who is another blind Dempsey stan. It doesn't work on anyone else. Learn to face reality.

[StarshipTrooper]

I saw what you did there

[Willie Pep 229]

LMAO. Passing the buck yet again, are we


First of all, you told me that it was Wills who didn't want this scrap. You have since quieted down about that and now it's Kearns fault. Anyone but Dempsey,


But ahemmmmmm. Excuse me. Wasn't it Dempsey himself who declined, saying he couldn't get in shape in time?


After it was off???? No buddy. How about the reason he gave to decline which is why they were pissed at him.


That's what happened, wasn't it?????? Wasn't it??????????????


I hope you enjoy this. Study up and come back so I can have another good laugh

Ready for Carpentier at any time. Oh...Wills......no thanks. lol
Poor Willie. Still can't face reality. How does it feel living in MendaCity, hmmm?




The truth of the matter is simply this. If Dempsey wanted this fight, he could have had this fight. If the public wanted this fight, that means there was no barrier. NY Commissioners that you slandered agreed that there was no barrier. There was definitely money for it. Dempsey is more than complicit because everyone whom you accuse of being at fault worked for him. He fired them when he wanted and came back when he wanted. So save your bullshlt for someone who is another blind Dempsey stan. It doesn't work on anyone else. Learn to face reality.

I never said Wills wanted out - when Montréal was first pitched word came from NY that Wills was in - two days later comes from NY that Wills was not available

Wills never ducked - you don't want to understand the Tammanny Hall (city govt), the NYSAC, the NY press, and MSG were all acting to get the fight made in NY. (and of course of friend Rickard keeping a close eye; not willing to step up he was willing to get involved if the attention; risk was others.)

Note the NYSAC sad attempt to strip Dempsey but didn't have the clot to go through with it. Kearns outplayed them with the Geb card.

Dempsey was unaware what games Kearns was playing.

The news articles is meaningless because all New York (all the above mentioned) were positioning Wills for title shot but in NY.

Wills was partly owned by Tammany interest and he spent the years 1922-1926 being called the uncrowned champion.

Re: Carpentier - Dempsey returned from Europe and the press got to him before Kearns coukd (at the dock) Dempsey wearing a monocle and talking in a bad Englush accent entertained the press, at which time he announced he SIGNED for a rematch with the frog for July in Paris.

A few days later there is a small PR announcement from Kearns that there is no Paris fight signed.

I would love to see that British contract Dempsey likely breached.

I said fight was already a no go when Dempsey got jumped by the NY press and anounced he needed more time. Kearns left Dempsey out of the loop.

Your just repeating the same info and not listening to anything I say. Now you down to mulpite ? and condescending remarks.

This is childish and I no longer wish to burn up energy on such pointless redundancies.

Have the last word and be sure to declare victory since that means so.much to you, but I'm out.

[Ivich]

I never said Wills wanted out - when Montréal was first pitched word came from NY that Wills was in - two days later comes from NY that Wills was not available

Wills never ducked - you don't want to understand the Tammanny Hall (city govt), the NYSAC, the NY press, and MSG were all acting to get the fight made in NY. (and of course of friend Rickard keeping a close eye; not willing to step up he was willing to get involved if the attention; risk was others.)

Note the NYSAC sad attempt to strip Dempsey but didn't have the clot to go through with it. Kearns outplayed them with the Geb card.

Dempsey was unaware what games Kearns was playing.

The news articles is meaningless because all New York (all the above mentioned) were positioning Wills for title shot but in NY.

Wills was partly owned by Tammany interest and he spent the years 1922-1926 being called the uncrowned champion.

Re: Carpentier - Dempsey returned from Europe and the press got to him before Kearns coukd (at the dock) Dempsey wearing a monocle and talking in a bad Englush accent entertained the press, at which time he announced he SIGNED for a rematch with the frog for July in Paris.

A few days later there is a small PR announcement from Kearns that there is no Paris fight signed.

I would love to see that British contract Dempsey likely breached.

I said fight was already a no go when Dempsey got jumped by the NY press and anounced he needed more time. Kearns left Dempsey out of the loop.

Your just repeating the same info and not listening to anything I say. Now you down to mulpite ? and condescending remarks.

This is childish and I no longer wish to burn up energy on such pointless redundancies.

Have the last word and be sure to declare victory since that means so.much to you, but I'm out.

You don't happen to have a year for that quote do you ?

[Ivich]

LMAO. Passing the buck yet again, are we


First of all, you told me that it was Wills who didn't want this scrap. You have since quieted down about that and now it's Kearns fault. Anyone but Dempsey,


But ahemmmmmm. Excuse me. Wasn't it Dempsey himself who declined, saying he couldn't get in shape in time?


After it was off???? No buddy. How about the reason he gave to decline which is why they were pissed at him.


That's what happened, wasn't it?????? Wasn't it??????????????


I hope you enjoy this. Study up and come back so I can have another good laugh

Ready for Carpentier at any time. Oh...Wills......no thanks. lol
Poor Willie. Still can't face reality. How does it feel living in MendaCity, hmmm?




The truth of the matter is simply this. If Dempsey wanted this fight, he could have had this fight. If the public wanted this fight, that means there was no barrier. NY Commissioners that you slandered agreed that there was no barrier. There was definitely money for it. Dempsey is more than complicit because everyone whom you accuse of being at fault worked for him. He fired them when he wanted and came back when he wanted. So save your bullshlt for someone who is another blind Dempsey stan. It doesn't work on anyone else. Learn to face reality.

The head of the NY Commission was William Muldoon he made appropriate noises about having the fight but did not want it in NY fearing racial unrest.I don't want to get in the middle of a civil war here but that is generally accepted as the truth of things.When was this quote written?

[Willie Pep 229]

You don't happen to have a year for that quote do you ?

Yea 1922 - at first the head guy at the Polo grounds followed the lead of NJ and Boston announcing the park was not available for mixed bouts. Muldoon was not a fan of blacks.

That year in the off year elections Farley a Tammanny Hall political operative was unseated from his congressional seat in the Bronx and Tammany took care of him by placing him on the NYSAC - Farley was making moves to switch the Negro vote from ********** to ******** (Tammanny) and began to champion Wills. As part of that effort.

As I said before Wills was in NY because several Tammanny Hall politician bought up pieces of his contract.

Later that year the Polo Grounds rescinded its prohibition and the park was available for the fight.

Muldoon was silenced and would resign thereafter.

Farley would go on to become FDR's guy in New York for the 1932 election, bringing home the black vote. He would become a major mover and shaker in the FDR campaigns of 1932 and 1936, known for bringing in black votes. Also brokering the deal that got John Nance Garner to put aside his dissatisfaction with FDR and join the ticket. He later set Garner up to look the fool as FDR moved in a different direction than Farely claimed he would.

Farley became a major NY player and championed Wills all throughout the middle 1920s.

[QueensburyRules]

Yea 1922 - at first the head guy at the Polo grounds followed the lead of NJ and Boston announcing the park was not available for mixed bouts. Muldoon was not a fan of blacks.

That year in the off year elections Farley a Tammanny Hall political operative was unseated from his congressional seat in the Bronx and Tammany took care of him by placing him on the NYSAC - Farley was making moves to switch the Negro vote from ********** to ******** (Tammanny) and began to champion Wills. As part of that effort.

As I said before Wills was in NY because several Tammanny Hall politician bought up pieces of his contract.

Later that year the Polo Grounds rescinded its prohibition and the park was available for the fight.

Muldoon was silenced and would resign thereafter.

Farley would go on to become FDR's guy in New York for the 1932 election, bringing home the black vote. He would become a major mover and shaker in the FDR campaigns of 1932 and 1936, known for bringing in black votes. Also brokering the deal that got John Nance Garner to put aside his dissatisfaction with FDR and join the ticket. He later set Garner up to look the fool as FDR moved in a different direction than Farely claimed he would.

Farley became a major NY player and championed Wills all throughout the middle 1920s.

- - Interesting back history Pep. Didn't you mention NJ as your home state, perhaps explaining your interest in this part of the country?

[Ivich]

Yea 1922 - at first the head guy at the Polo grounds followed the lead of NJ and Boston announcing the park was not available for mixed bouts. Muldoon was not a fan of blacks.

That year in the off year elections Farley a Tammanny Hall political operative was unseated from his congressional seat in the Bronx and Tammany took care of him by placing him on the NYSAC - Farley was making moves to switch the Negro vote from ********** to ******** (Tammanny) and began to champion Wills. As part of that effort.

As I said before Wills was in NY because several Tammanny Hall politician bought up pieces of his contract.

Later that year the Polo Grounds rescinded its prohibition and the park was available for the fight.

Muldoon was silenced and would resign thereafter.

Farley would go on to become FDR's guy in New York for the 1932 election, bringing home the black vote. He would become a major mover and shaker in the FDR campaigns of 1932 and 1936, known for bringing in black votes. Also brokering the deal that got John Nance Garner to put aside his dissatisfaction with FDR and join the ticket. He later set Garner up to look the fool as FDR moved in a different direction than Farely claimed he would.

Farley became a major NY player and championed Wills all throughout the middle 1920s.

In that case Dempsey had been out of the ring for11 months,that being the case I find it entirely reasonable that he would require more time to train ,especially for such a dangerous challenger as Wills. Thanks for the other info very interesting.

[travestyny]

I never said Wills wanted out - when Montréal was first pitched word came from NY that Wills was in - two days later comes from NY that Wills was not available

Wills never ducked - you don't want to understand the Tammanny Hall (city govt), the NYSAC, the NY press, and MSG were all acting to get the fight made in NY. (and of course of friend Rickard keeping a close eye; not willing to step up he was willing to get involved if the attention; risk was others.)

Note the NYSAC sad attempt to strip Dempsey but didn't have the clot to go through with it. Kearns outplayed them with the Geb card.

Dempsey was unaware what games Kearns was playing.

The news articles is meaningless because all New York (all the above mentioned) were positioning Wills for title shot but in NY.

Wills was partly owned by Tammany interest and he spent the years 1922-1926 being called the uncrowned champion.

Re: Carpentier - Dempsey returned from Europe and the press got to him before Kearns coukd (at the dock) Dempsey wearing a monocle and talking in a bad Englush accent entertained the press, at which time he announced he SIGNED for a rematch with the frog for July in Paris.

A few days later there is a small PR announcement from Kearns that there is no Paris fight signed.

I would love to see that British contract Dempsey likely breached.

I said fight was already a no go when Dempsey got jumped by the NY press and anounced he needed more time. Kearns left Dempsey out of the loop.

Your just repeating the same info and not listening to anything I say. Now you down to mulpite ? and condescending remarks.

This is childish and I no longer wish to burn up energy on such pointless redundancies.

Have the last word and be sure to declare victory since that means so.much to you, but I'm out.

You haven't proven anything you said. Why would I blindly listen to you.


Show proof that Wills was unavailable. And show proof that the fight was already off and why it was off. I have multiple sources that says it was off for the simple reason that Dempsey said he can't get into shape in time.


Also, your Tammany bs again. That is the argument that you make that is the most laughable. NY wanted the fight....so exactly what is the problem? How does wanting the fight equal the fight not being made?




Don't talk about condescending remarks. I tried to keep this civil with you when you were piling on insult after insult . If you want to take it there, I have no problem returning fire. But as per your usual M.O., you go to the insults and then play victim when it comes back to you, and then you run off.

I'll be waiting for your proof of anything you said. Anything at all. And then I'll show you more of what I have if necessary. I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this all.

[Willie Pep 229]

You haven't proven anything you said. Why would I blindly listen to you.


Show proof that Wills was unavailable. And show proof that the fight was already off and why it was off. I have multiple sources that says it was off for the simple reason that Dempsey said he can't get into shape in time.


Also, your Tammany bs again. That is the argument that you make that is the most laughable. NY wanted the fight....so exactly what is the problem? How does wanting the fight equal the fight not being made?




Don't talk about condescending remarks. I tried to keep this civil with you when you were piling on insult after insult . If you want to take it there, I have no problem returning fire. But as per your usual M.O., you go to the insults and then play victim when it comes back to you, and then you run off.

I'll be waiting for your proof of anything you said. Anything at all. And then I'll show you more of what I have if necessary. I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this all.

No! No more for me you win. Please stop.