Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[Ivich]

- - Dempsey tried multiple x to get in the ring with Wills.

JJohnson never did with Wills. Both Wills and Jeannette on record as saying lil Sam was the best fighter of their era, and that JJohnson ducked all of them while holding his title.

Ya could look it up!

Alternatively you could provide a verified quote where Wills ,[who Johnson let go as a sparring partner because he said he wasn't up to the job,] said Johnson ducked them. But we both know you won't be doing that!

[GhostofDempsey]

No I haven't, nobody has asked me to .Would you like the site of the proposed Johnson v Langford and Mcvey fights? The ,promoter? Johnsons purses for the two fights? How about the promoters statement as to why he pulled out of staging them? Johnson twice signed to defend against Jeannette the location was not of his choosing it was the promoters, who were based there and since Jeannette was popular in NY it made sound business sense. Johnson was 35 when he defended against 26years old Jim Johnson the challenger was no world beater but he drew with the best of them and occasionaly beat them.Was he any worse a challenger than Jack Munroe,John Finnegan, Bill Squires, Jem Roche or a hundred others?

Yes, post it all. Up to now you've posted nothing of value.

[GhostofDempsey]

Have you read the books I named? Because if you haven't, how do you know whether their content was favourable towards Johnson or negative? You don't know what either Johnson or Langford weighed for their fight so please stop making silly statements
.Kid Cottons record is 28 fights won 8 ,lost 13 with 1 draw.Please give a date when a fight between Cotton and Johnson would have been a credible sell to the public? If Johnson had fought him and beaten him up ,as he surely would have done,you would now be condemning him for fighting him!. Let's face it mate you're just a hater who would not recognize objectivity is it jumped up and hit him in the face! Nobody is going to convince you that Johnson signed contracts to fight all 3 of his foremost black challengers and that the fights did not happen was no fault of his own. Your blatant bias and hatred is oozing out of every post you make. I'm still laughing about the possibility of Johnson avoiding Cotton! You're unhinged on this subject! I have The Clay Moyle book and have corresponded with Clay.
FYI, he believes that prime for prime Johnson beats Langford

Any time after December 1910 Johnson could have fought Cotton. He wanted no part of him. Johnson demanded a side bet of $5,000 in order for Cotton to fight him, which Johnson knew he didn't have. Johnson always had an excuse handy for avoiding the black fighters he didn't want to fight.

You keep yapping and making bold claims but have provided nothing to support your argument besides snide insults and name dropping. You remind me of another poster here who melts down quite easily at the mere mention of Johnson.

[Ivich]

Yes, post it all. Up to now you've posted nothing of value.

Like you know WTF you're talking about ! lol

[Ivich]

Any time after December 1910 Johnson could have fought Cotton. He wanted no part of him. Johnson demanded a side bet of $5,000 in order for Cotton to fight him, which Johnson knew he didn't have. Johnson always had an excuse handy for avoiding the black fighters he didn't want to fight.

You keep yapping and making bold claims but have provided nothing to support your argument besides snide insults and name dropping. You remind me of another poster here who melts down quite easily at the mere mention of Johnson.

Which wins after 1910 did Cotton have that qualified him for a title shot at Johnson?Take your time I have all week! LOL
Here I'll help you out.
From Jan1st1911 until 30th of March 1918, when he retired.
Cotton had 26 fights Winning 6 Losing15 and he was ko'd 10 times!
1911. 7 fights won 1.A ko over 17-14-9 Al Kubiak
1913. 4 fights won 1.A ko over 1-3-1 Rough House Ware
Want to continue until Johnson lost his title in April 1915 ?
Okay
1914 . 4 fights won 1 Another win over Rough House Ware, 2 ko losses to Wills and Langford and a pts loss to Langford.
1915 2 fights,[ up till April ,when Johnson lost his title ,] both fights were against Al Kubiak. Cotton won the first and lost the second
Now, given those stats please explain how Cotton merited a title shot at Johnson?
While you are at it ,explain why Johnson would avoid Cotton?
Actually I think you just have to be a troll, nobody could be that ****** and be exposed so blatantly as an ignoramus and still have the barefaced gall to post on a forum!

[mrbig1]

I've said many times on this board and others how Johnson was overrated. I'm not saying he was not a great fighter. It's the people he beat as champion. Tommy burns was 5 feet nothing and 168 pounds. Stanley Ketchel was a MW. If he had a HW punch, he may have won that fight. If Tyson Fury beats Canelo, would we be calling him great?

[GhostofDempsey]

Which wins after 1910 did Cotton have that qualified him for a title shot at Johnson?Take your time I have all week!LOL

Which of Battling Jim Johnson's wins secured him a title shot with Jack Johnson? Or 5'9" Tony Ross? Al Kaufman?

[GhostofDempsey]

Which wins after 1910 did Cotton have that qualified him for a title shot at Johnson?Take your time I have all week!LOL

Frank Moran...remember him?

[GhostofDempsey]

I've said many times on this board and others how Johnson was overrated. I'm not saying he was not a great fighter. It's the people he beat as champion. Tommy burns was 5 feet nothing and 168 pounds. Stanley Ketchel was a MW. If he had a HW punch, he may have won that fight. If Tyson Fury beats Canelo, would we be calling him great?

This has been my contention all along. For all of the praise he gets, we can't ignore the fact that his best wins were against middleweights and his wins over McVey, Jeannette were while they were still novices. McVey was only 19 years old when they fought. They had less than 10 and 20 fights respectively. Once they got bigger and improved (Jeannette fought Johnson to a draw in their last contest), Johnson avoided them. Johnson's win over Langford would have been like LaMotta fighting Marciano. Once Sam got bigger and better, Johnson steered clear of him. When lightweight Jack Blackburn bloodied Johnson's nose in sparring, it fueled a life long grudge between them. Harry Wills roughed up Johnson in sparring and was told never to come back. He certainly wouldn't see a title shot.

[Ivich]

Which of Battling Jim Johnson's wins secured him a title shot with Jack Johnson? Or 5'9" Tony Ross? Al Kaufman?

Jim Johnson had beaten;
Jeannette
Cowler
Harris
And drawn with Ross,Kubiak and McVey.
He had also beaten a fella named Kid Cotton.
Kaufman had beaten;
Barry
Schreck
Gardner
Sullivan
Ross
Flynn
In his next 2 fights after losing to Johnson,he beat Jack O Brien.And he weighed 191lbs for the Johnson fight, pretty big middleweight!
Ross had beaten;
Gardner by ko
Drawn with:Harris and Barry and he weighed 214lbs for the Johnson fight,pretty big middleweight!