Holmes vs Foreman

[Rusty Tromboni]

-
When he had a chance, he crumpled sorta like you,

What can I say? You just have that affect on men.

It's impressive at such an advanced age, a girl like you still has her charms.

[QueensburyRules]

I like the way you think, the way you come to the conclusion you did...I am dissapointed that I do not see more people in the section, many of whom argue very well, but do not respect precedent and how much it is a gift we are given to forsee such things as a winner in a fight where each fighter has fought many opponents. I mean if we know a similar style, type, or other characteristics that give us a clue to performance, that is important information.

With that said Foreman was a calculating fighter, a man who was mentored among others by Liston, another very calculating puncher who could box as well as any boxer puncher, and take you out with jab, and either hand. Shavers is just too one dimensional to not make a distinction between him and Foreman.

Shavers to me is the purest of the pure... A pure puncher who focused on how many opportunities in a given fight, his punch would find a home on the opponent. He was also damn good at it...He caught great fighters like Ali and Holmes, but of one could get up... Shavers did not have the finishing skills of Liston or Foreman, nor the thinking to set a trap, to move the opponent into the punch (all things that George could do).

So my question becomes: what could Foreman do against Holmes? Would he wilt at Holme's jab? Would he get caught up by Larry's excellent lateral movements? Or would he find a way to encroach on Larry and deliver?

Well...Heres more precedent: jimmy Young. With that said? I believe that Foreman would lose to Holmes in a tough fight.

- -Lar the poor mans Ali wasn't even qualified to fight Young when Foreman did nor did he ever, but when he had his Foreman chance he crumpled like a toilet paper outhouse.

Nor was he qualified to fight Frazier, Ali, or Norton. Foreman beat up young so badly that all he could do is flee for his life and cop an orchestrated DKing political decision.

Nor could Lar carry Rocky's jock strap when he cracked approaching that record...epic failure but at least he didn't let King destroy him like King did to all his other heavies.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Lar the poor mans Ali wasn't even qualified to fight Young when Foreman did nor did he ever, but when he had his Foreman chance he crumpled like a toilet paper outhouse.

Nor was he qualified to fight Frazier, Ali, or Norton. Foreman beat up young so badly that all he could do is flee for his life and cop an orchestrated DKing political decision.

Nor could Lar carry Rocky's jock strap when he cracked approaching that record...epic failure but at least he didn't let King destroy him like King did to all his other heavies.

Do you mind sharing the proof that Holmes ducked/avoided Foreman and Young?

Holmes was a work in progress. He was much more refined and complete than any of the 70's Heavyweights. He also had the balls and the wits to survive better than Foreman (author of the greatest disappearing act in the history of Boxing), and Frazier (you have seen his swollen, disfigured face in the Dictionary next to "Predictable").

That's how Boxing works. Sure, we see lots of young talent emerge quickly, but what does that mean?

Do you really think Tyson had a better career than Holyfield? Dempsey a better career than Louis, Ali, or Lewis?

Holmes didn't have a tremendous amount of raw talent, but he had longevity and consistency. Soooo often the truer proof of a fighter's greatness.

[billeau2]

- -Lar the poor mans Ali wasn't even qualified to fight Young when Foreman did nor did he ever, but when he had his Foreman chance he crumpled like a toilet paper outhouse.

Nor was he qualified to fight Frazier, Ali, or Norton. Foreman beat up young so badly that all he could do is flee for his life and cop an orchestrated DKing political decision.

Nor could Lar carry Rocky's jock strap when he cracked approaching that record...epic failure but at least he didn't let King destroy him like King did to all his other heavies.

Well...I don't know where you are getting information to draw these conclusions. They are a somewhat minority view, but hey, we all have opinions. I certainly agree that outsmarting King was something Holmes achieved and bless him for that.

[QueensburyRules]

- -And what's TubLar record against title holders?

0-5 or 0-6 if we include Brian Neilson.

I don't make this shhh up anymore than I make up TubLar!

[Rusty Tromboni]

Well...I don't know where you are getting information to draw these conclusions. They are a somewhat minority view, but hey, we all have opinions. I certainly agree that outsmarting King was something Holmes achieved and bless him for that.

Yeah, larry wasn't as dumb as he seemed.

I really think that if he was avoiding legends it's because he knew he wasn't ready. Not unlike Hagler, he fought everyone he had to fight to become champion.Really, his lead up to the championship would make most championship reigns blush.

And there's nothing wrong with a up-coming fighter avoidingopponents he's unready to face. A prime Holmes would have happily faced anyone. It wasn't until he was closing in on Marciano's record (and his skills were fading) that he became chosey about his his challengers.

[billeau2]

Yeah, larry wasn't as dumb as he seemed.

I really think that if he was avoiding legends it's because he knew he wasn't ready. Not unlike Hagler, he fought everyone he had to fight to become champion.Really, his lead up to the championship would make most championship reigns blush.

And there's nothing wrong with a up-coming fighter avoidingopponents he's unready to face. A prime Holmes would have happily faced anyone. It wasn't until he was closing in on Marciano's record (and his skills were fading) that he became chosey about his his challengers.

I can't remember a knock on Holmes being his competition. Its not that I don't fathom it...I just remember him as an angry guy, trying to climb out from Ali's shadow and willing to do what it took to prove he was able. But when I hear it said on these threads it does make sense.

[clemenza]

I would predict Larry via 14-15 knockout. Both guys would have there moments for sure , but Holmes piston like left jab & good foot movement catches Big George Off Balance and stops him late. I think George’s lack of conditioning in the championship rounds is his downfall.

[QueensburyRules]

I would predict Larry via 14-15 knockout. Both guys would have there moments for sure , but Holmes piston like left jab & good foot movement catches Big George Off Balance and stops him late. I think George’s lack of conditioning in the championship rounds is his downfall.

- -U drink, therefore U think enlightenment is it now?

[clemenza]

- -U drink, therefore U think enlightenment is it now?

What are you talking about pal.
George was a power punching fighter who lacked conditioning.
It’s very simple a Queensburied
You have this anger & disrespectful tone about Larry Holmes constantly. Did you grow up in the Easton Pennsylvania area or Phillipsburg NJ, did Larry take your lunch money as a young Lad. George would be in trouble in the championship rounds. Holmes has a very good chin and always was ready to go 15, and honestly can you say that about George.
They had different styles completely.
After 7-8 rounds it would be a sparring session.
Stay away from Easton , Larry is still there and he will wants more of your lunch money Queenie