Marciano was overrated and not an ATG.

[Benny Leonard]

Marciano had no TKOs. He had 43 KOs and six decisions. In spite of his fights with Frazier and Foreman , he still ran his mouth more than he fought.

Yes, but look at who ALI was fighting and who Marciano was facing.

All the top opponents Marciano fought were under 200 pounds. Which is fair if you look at it since Marciano was only 185 pounds like his competition. And you should check where they started their career since some of them started at Middle.

Guys like Liston, Shavers, Foreman, Frazier, etc. were probably 200 pounds at birth.

Then, also check the fights that each fought prior to facing Marciano and/or Ali.

Charles, Walcott, and Moore had all previously been in wars and been knocked out.

Ali fought the tougher competition; he has the better resume; it's harder to win against who Ali fought as well as trying to knock these guys out, than who Marciano fought.

But it is true, Ali wasn't a Knockout artist...although who he fought didn't help inflate his KO record.

[Yogi]

Making a distinction between a 'KO' and a 'TKO' is still a relatively new practice for those compiling "official" record keeping, as I (and maybe Poet could too considering his age) can still remember the days from the late 70's and early 80's when any fight stopped in one fighter's favour before the scheduled distance was up went into the record books as a 'KO' no matter if he scored a 10 count win or whether he won via a referee's (or doctor, corner) stoppage.

The Ring Record Book back then went with this practice during my younger days, as did the magazines from memory...whether it be when they listed the fights that took place in the last month or, for another example, when, say KO Magazine ran a fight-by-fight listing of the fighter who they chose for the coloured pinup.

In fact, even in their official rules, the boxing commisions listed a 'KO' back in the day (I'm going further back to around Marciano's time) as not only consisting of a 10 count over a downed fighter, but also one where the fight had to be stopped (ref, doctor, corner) due to too much punishment or perhaps injury.

As per both Marciano and Ali, take a look at the fight-by-fight records in "Biography of a First Son" (Skehan) and "My Own Story" (Ali & Durham). Both books were written within a couple of years of each other during the last half of the 70's, yet both of their fight-by-fight records in the books show every fight, save one*, that they won inside the distance as a 'KO' in their favour even though they won fights in the manner that we now list as a 'TKO'.

*The one being, they have the Thrilla listed as a TKO 14 for Ali.

It's only been in the last 20 to 25 years (apx) where record keepers have made a distinction between the two endings.

[JAB5239]

No, they are not the same. No one is knocked out with a TKO. In a TKO situation, usually the opponent is beaten half to death before the referee stops the fight whereas a KO is less savage. Ali wasn't good enough to knock out the majority of his opponents. If the idea of boxing is to hit while not getting hit, then Ali certainly failed there. He did quite a bit of dancing with most of his opponents. There were many times in Ali's fights where the audience should have stood up and sang "Let me call you sweetheart" as they did in another fight. Marciano didn't have to dance with them because he wasted no time. He got down to business, unlike Ali. It isn't true that Ali was rarely hit; but if it were, it would be because he was skilled at running around the ring.

I-G-N-O-R-A-N-C-E

[JAB5239]

Dude, you need to take you ignorant ass over and see the official records whether BoxRec or some other source. They do NOT differentiate between them. When you see Ali's record as 37-5-0 (37) that "37" is all stoppages. There is no difference in the official record. Learn something for a change instead of flapping your cum dumpster on a subject you know phuck all about.

What a ******** 24 karat ignoramous.

Poet

Yeah, he's a dope. No matter how anyone wants to look at it though......tko....ko.....if a fighter can't go on or defend himself he's a beaten man. I fail to see the difference.

[RODHOOK]

Marciano Under Rated

LETS FACE IT WITH EACH GENERATION MEN ARE GETTING BIGGER.
TOMMY BURNS WAS 5'7" 165LBS. LOUIS 6'1" 200LBS.UP TO VAVULEV[spelling]
7'2". NOW BETWEEN 6'2" & 6'6" AT 250LBS. IS THE NORM.
RODHOOK

[JAB5239]

LETS FACE IT WITH EACH GENERATION MEN ARE GETTING BIGGER.
TOMMY BURNS WAS 5'7" 165LBS. LOUIS 6'1" 200LBS.UP TO VAVULEV[spelling]
7'2". NOW BETWEEN 6'2" & 6'6" AT 250LBS. IS THE NORM.
RODHOOK

So true. So true. However, lets face it.....heavyweights are becoming less and less skilled, throw fewer and fewer punches and can go fewer and fewer rounds.

Not sure what the point of your post was, but I'll take the heavyweights from era's gone by over the load of crap fighting out there now anyday. Shoot yourself for even mentioning Joe Louis and Valuev in the same sentence. GOOD GOD!!!!

[RODHOOK]

Marciano And Ali

who Are You Calling Ugly? Marciano Certainly Looked Better Than Crazy Ali.

He Was A Better Fighter, Too. Check The Records: Ali Had 61 Fights With 5 Losses, 12 Kos, And 26 Tkos Whereas Marciano Had 49 Fights With 43 Kos And No Losses. Ali Had Too Many Tkos; Marciano Had None Because He Was Powerful Enough To Finish His Opponent, Not Dance With Him. He Also Had Some Manners, Unlike The Bigmouthed Ali, Who Was More Mouth Than Fight. He, Not Marciano, Is The Most Overrated Fighter In History And The Most Obnoxiously Behaved.

Ali Was So Far Superior A Fighter Than Rocky That The Two
Should Not Be Compared. Marciano Is Not In The Same Class
Of Fighter. Rodhook

[JulioCesaChavez]

I don't know why I waste time 24 karat ignoramises like you Rafael Benitez. You are so far below my intellect you might as well be a worm. You keep getting banned, you keep coming back like the pathetic phuck you are under these endless stream of alts; and yet here I am again wasting my time refuting your moronic statements. Why don't you do Boxing Scene a favor and just go die or something? Preferably in a great deal of pain.

Poet

Pathetic excuse of a post for not having a good enough answer. Like I said, bans outside the boxing sections mean nothing here. Let's talk boxing (if you are capable of doing so), so which top fighter did he defeat in their prime????
You got no answer so cxome out with pathetic personal attacks, whcih do not mean much coming from you. It's me that should be ignopring you, because you're soubnding a bit like your ******ed mate logan!

Ezzard Charles was past prime but far from washed up. He had also been fighting at Heavyweight for several years and couldn't be considered a Light-Heavyweight anymore.

So you agree he was not in his prime but then offer a few excuses! He was washed up as far as being a dominated fighter is concerned. he suffered a few KO's too. if beating him makes Marciano great then I guess all the other people who beat Charles are great too! Marciano stayed retired for as reason: he was a fraud. Another thing I noticed is that none of you can talk about his skills, because he had none.

[StarshipTrooper]

Pathetic excuse of a post for not having [sic] a good enough answer. Like I said, bans outside the boxing sections mean nothing here. Let's talk boxing (if you are capable of doing so), so which top fighter did he defeat in their [sic] prime????
You got [sic] no answer so cxome [sic] out with pathetic personal attacks, whcih [sic] do not mean [sic] much coming from you. It's me that should be ignopring [sic] you, because you're soubnding [sic] a bit like your ******ed mate logan!

So you agree he was not in his prime but then offer a few excuses! He was washed up as far as being a dominated [sic] fighter is concerned. he suffered a few KO's too. if beating him makes Marciano great then I guess all the other people who beat Charles are great too! Marciano stayed retired for as [sic] reason: he was a fraud. Another thing I noticed is that none of you can talk about his skills, because he had none.

So you admit to being Rafael Benitez? Bravo! When are you going to learn how to spell and put together a simple sentence in English? Your knowledge of English grammer is like your knowledge of boxing: Non-existent.

so which top fighter did he defeat in their [sic] prime????

Answer MY question: Which ATG did Tyson, Lewis, Holmes, Liston, Dempsey, Johnson, and KLITSCHKO defeat in their prime? Don't change the question just because I called you on your BS.

It's me that should be ignopring [sic] you, because you're soubnding [sic] a bit like your ******ed mate logan!

Sorry! I already slapped the taste of Logan's daddy's **** out of his mouth LOL!

Another thing I noticed is that none of you can talk about his skills, because he had none.

Another thing I've noticed is you can't talk about anybody else's skills, only belittle Marciano's.

He was washed up as far as being a dominated [sic] fighter is concerned.

You're washed up as far as being any kind of poster because you get dominated by me at every turn.

Marciano stayed retired for as [sic] reason: he was a fraud.

You and your alts should stay retired from Boxing Scene: Because you're a fraud!

PS. Why don't you just come out and admit it you got some kind of bizzare beef with Whitey and you hate white fighters? What happend? Did your neighborhood get a new white postman nine months before you where born or something?

Poet

[Kid McCoy]

Pathetic excuse of a post for not having a good enough answer. Like I said, bans outside the boxing sections mean nothing here. Let's talk boxing (if you are capable of doing so), so which top fighter did he defeat in their prime????
You got no answer so cxome out with pathetic personal attacks, whcih do not mean much coming from you. It's me that should be ignopring you, because you're soubnding a bit like your ******ed mate logan!


So you agree he was not in his prime but then offer a few excuses! He was washed up as far as being a dominated fighter is concerned. he suffered a few KO's too. if beating him makes Marciano great then I guess all the other people who beat Charles are great too! Marciano stayed retired for as reason: he was a fraud. Another thing I noticed is that none of you can talk about his skills, because he had none.

Pray tell which prime all-time great heavies Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield defeated. Can't name one? I guess they were no good either then.

Contrary to what some say, Liston and Patterson were not factors in the heavyweight division when Marciano retired. He stayed retired because he had nothing left to accomplish in the division. He had all his marbles and all his money, his legacy intact, and unlike most, the sense not to come back when past his prime.

Incidentally, not that you'd know it, but most of the guys who beat a prime or near-prime Ezzard Charles were all-time greats.