For all the Roy Jones haters

[slicksouthpaw16]

Jim Lampley is calling that on the fly... and he DID get hit... but his footing got misplaced, its unbelievably obvious when you watch the way he moves his back foot and then just falls.... hes embarassed cuz he got hit and knows he went down, its a legitimate knockdown whether he slipped or not, because he did get hit... but he didnt go down because of that punch

how come i only catch you EVER talking negative on roy?

I have posts here and many threads on east-side boxing.com and other sites about Jones and his skills. The fact that people overrate him is what gets to me. They discribe him to be unbeatable and the kinds of post that i see about him beating true heavyweights is just insane. Prime Tyson, Lennox Lewis? Muhammad Ali? Its frustrating.

[THE REED]

I have posts here and many threads on east-side boxing.com and other sites about Jones and his skills. The fact that people overrate him is what gets to me. They discribe him to be unbeatable and the kinds of post that i see about him beating true heavyweights is just insane. Prime Tyson, Lennox Lewis? Muhammad Ali? Its frustrating.

well, he wouldnt be beating those fighters...

[wpink1]

Sorry fellas, even though I am arguing for Roy on this thread, the knock down was legit. You dont always get knocked down in the same manner. leoanrd when he got knocked down by hearns in the 2nd fight, the first time, went down in a delayed manner as well.

If look closely roy was on unsteady feet when he got up, falling back into the ropes. He was cleanly dropped, cleanly and you have never heard roy even try to argue the point, have you?

[wpink1]

No offense, but your acting as if age is an indicator of how a fighter should perform in boxing is nothing more than laughable. We can go through plenty of fighters that were old in boxing at an early age. Look at Duran, Hagler, Ali, Jones, Robinson ectetra. All was past it when they were in their middle 30s and down. When you have a fighter such as these whom have such great stamina and work ethic ( on top of all of the punches taken and weight drain), they could very well become burned out in training alone. You have to maintain hard training to be conditioned as well as these atheltes. Take Floyd Mayweather for example. He has barely taken any punishment throughout his entire career, but yet he is past his prime. Notice his foot movement, jab and reflexes when he was at super feather to lightweight? All have slowed down and he is no longer at his best. Why? Becuase all of the amature fights and all of the hard training that he does is taking their toll on him. Its the same with Hagler. He has all of those fights before he was recognized by the public and we all see how hard he trains. Do you seriously believe that he was in his prime against Duran or Leonard? Please, many boxing anaylist that have i talked to belives that Hagler's prime ended in the 1970s, before he became recognized.

Wow..... First off Hagler fought the same style early in his career when he tried to be a boxer first, when he lost several fights early on, and lost to Antefermo, then when he was boxed virtually to a standstill against Duran. I am not saying Hagler did not have some slippage in speed in 87, nor am I saying that he was the same fighter he was in 83 when he faced leoanrd. What I am saying is that he was still not a shot fighter, and he was active and unbeaten in 10 years, just beat his best 3 opponents he ever faced, and faced a welter weight who was out of boxing except for 1 fight in the last 5 years, and he was beaten. I also ask you to point out who great that was a solid natural middlweigh or above that was great did hagler beat? His best opposition was fighters that moved up to him...Mugabi, hearns, Duran, leoanard. Not to knock him as he was one of my favorites, but we do overrate the big four, because of their wars amongst each other, and do not give other fighters in other eras their just due.

Hagler never beat a fighter near the style or skills of a Jones, Jones beat Hopkings and Toney who arguable are every bit the fighter that hagler was. Hopkins best wins vs Trinidad and DLH mirrors Haglers best wins, hearns and Duran (dlh and duran both moved up from lower weights, trinidad & hearns from welterweight). Hopkins held the title for a decade so did Hagler, I believe Hopkins broke Hagler record of defenses. Hopkins also beat winky and tarver..active fighters..when he was relativly inactive. Hagler lost to a inactive Welter.

Also you are smoking regarding Toney. We dont have to imagine anything my friend. They fought. We dont have to imagine we can look at the tape. You say Toney had the perfect game plan, what weed are you on, I would love to package it and sell it. Your the only person in America that gave him 3 rounds. At that, on your card he lost 9-3 on most everyone elses it was 11-1 or 12-0. Your continuing to debate that fight, causes you to lose major credibility. Get over it, we dont have to imagine they fought in peak years.

Also I dont make excuses for Roy. I spit the facts. Roy lost 30 pounds of muscle to reach weight and still won that fight. Roy was 36 years old before he lost a fight with out is being a dq.

Your aruging off of opinion and I am giving you facts,and I am not a Roy Jones fan. I was where you are be4, but the fact is he is a alltime great. If you stop being biased, as I am often in favor of leonard, then you will see there is no comparison. Look at how many former, current, or future world champions Roy beat..EASILY. How many fights 50+ wins and campaigning at heavier weights vs champions, vs 36 wins and a great initial career, then after Hagler cherry picked older fighters until he got his ass handed to him by Norris.

What happened in rounds 6-7 and 13-14 against Leonard? Hearns fadded and Ray was able to capitalize on it. Because he was being easily out pointed from a distance and when he would get on the inside earlier, then he would catch counter jabs and hard right hands from Hearns. I hate to sound unreasonable here, but that was the point in which Hearns had his stamina. Leonard was easily being out boxed.

Round 6 Hearns was not Tired...Yes hearns used a great jab...but leonard GAME PLAN was to let Hearns shot his wad early (get the sports illustrated the week before the fight in 81) and not get caught with anything big, then come on. Ray tried to come onin round 3 and 4. Ray landed good shots in those rounds, good counters. Look at it, howeve hearns came on at the end of round 4 with some blistering punches of his own...Then round 6...Hearns was not tired, Ray did not hunt him down, it was a counter that caught him. I REPEAT A COUNTER... In fact Ray was off balance, and through a half left hook upper cut that caught Hearns.. A COUNTER!!!

Now if anyone saw Jones, the speed of his counters and power and precision was 10X that of Leonards on his best day. Again I love Leonard, but he did not have the hand speed or counters or power of Jones. Leonard based is offense of movement, the jab, putting punches together. Roy pretty much was more economical. He was more effective right in front of you countering your jab with a super quick left hook and a over hand right...(which hurt Hearns in the 13rd round ..and no Hearns was not faded then either. Another false myth. Hearn had just had his best round in the 12th, and was winning the 13th until Ray caught him with a Right,,,at the very moment announcers were saying leonard is looking desperate....)

Hearns had a very good jab & great right hand, but Leonard did not initially brawl or stalk hearns, it was AFTER a great counter got Hearns in trouble in round 6 when he was fresh and winning. 13th, Leonad was more visably worn out than Hearns and wose losing the 13th round when he got caught. I suggest you get your facts str8, my friend. I know that fight like the back of my hand. I even saw a interview with leoanrd saying he was completley shot, and could not mount an attack for those rounds he was not punching. Hearns also said in the Jan 82 addition of the Ring, that he was not tired, and had no issues making weight, he simply got caught.

[QUOTE]

You mean, i simply have an opinion that you don't agree with. Thats fine, but many people will agree that you need to rethink some of your last posts. Your underestimation of Hagler and Hearns leave me to think if you have seen any other fight besides at their worst.

Also yes, Jones beat another title holder and middleweight but you have to look at who he is. The great Thomas Tate? I worry if thats your indication of anything.

I wouldn't be worked up with the last part of your post. I read it and you showed your lack of knowledge on Hagler and disrepect towards him. I am seriously wondering if you have seen any fight of him when he was actually in his prime and not just looking on Boxrec or youtube highlights. The man was fantastic and could do it all. Out box his opponent, out brawl his opponent out smart his opponents ectera.

[QUOTE]

First off I dont base my decisions off of youtube. I go to fights, boxed myself, and have the tapes. Thanx, and actually spoke directly with Dundee about Roy Jones.

I love Hagler style. I again think that that era embodied true greats. However just llike latest dont mean the greatest, neither does just becasue they beat up on each other with great fights, mean they are the greatest. A simple exam will show our biased towards those fighters.

1. Hagler beat what top great at middleweight who was a natural middleweight...
2. How many loses did Hagler have before the leonard fight,
3. Did Hagler ever take the challenges by the light heavy's at the time.
4. Did Hagler ever "in fact" do anythign that Hopkins did not do?
5. Duran what was his record vs top fighters that he moved up and faced all before the age of 34...compare this to other fighters as they move up..hmmm
6. Hearns what top great did he ever beat at their peak...in age and weight....Hmmmm
7. Leoanrd beat more truly elite fighters than the rest of these fighters, but how many defenes did he have.
8. Did he every face a young great fighter at 160 and above?
9. Did he Hearns and hagler have an opportunity to fight Nunn, McCallum, toney, etc. and chose

to fight only the senior tour?

Now compare that to what Roy has done...... and how easily he did it. No there where not any Leonards, haglers, and Durans...but I Roy beat several great fighters easily and a lot of other champions at 160,168,175. Then won at heavyweight.

Finally, I hear that many talk about who roy didnt face, well how about who leonard, hearns, and Hagler colletivly didnt face. How about the fighters above middleweight that Roy did face, and compare that to the exploits above their natural weight Leoanrd, hagler and hearns did....Hmmmmmm

Finally your point about mayweather....Mayweather is much heavier now at 147 than at 130 and 135, so that is why you dont see the flurries, combinations, and unwillngness to exchange toe to toe. Look at Ali when he got heavier, Leonad as he moved up to Kalule, Mosley as he moved up (for the most part he abandoned the rapid fire combinations too except for Dlh 1st fight, and Vargas,,,but now we know he used steriords too).

[THE REED]

i hate this thread... the thread starter made a lot of errors in his post...

[MWMerlino]

RJJ is such a good fighter people have to pull out all kinds of obscure stories and statistics to try and argue against him. I'd rather people grossly overrate Jones than pull up some sob story about Toney being hooked up to an IV to make weight (he shouldn't of fought, and that shouldn't discredit what Jones did to him). What were Toney's words after the fight?

"He was the better man tonight"

Lets not start speaking for professional boxers, they can do that themselves.

[wpink1]

RJJ is such a good fighter people have to pull out all kinds of obscure stories and statistics to try and argue against him. I'd rather people grossly overrate Jones than pull up some sob story about Toney being hooked up to an IV to make weight (he shouldn't of fought, and that shouldn't discredit what Jones did to him). What were Toney's words after the fight?

"He was the better man tonight"

Lets not start speaking for professional boxers, they can do that themselves.

How anyone can gather that Toney can beat Jones after that clear and easy of a beating, and much worse..much much worse for anyone to say Toney had an effective and correct game plan in that fight, a fight where he won at most on most peoples scorecards...1-2 rounds...Wow...... I have heard it all.

[MWMerlino]

How anyone can gather that Toney can beat Jones after that clear and easy of a beating, and much worse..much much worse for anyone to say Toney had an effective and correct game plan in that fight, a fight where he won at most on most peoples scorecards...1-2 rounds...Wow...... I have heard it all.

lol

I'm finding that posters on this forum would rather come off as delusional fan boys than honest observers of the sport...

[wpink1]

MWMerlino....ha ha.