For all the Roy Jones haters

[slicksouthpaw16]

Slick south paw...come on your kidding me....hearns has not chance beating roy...None...he got hurt by leonard at welter, got stopped by hagler, and barkly. Who great has he beat at THEIR PEAK? Hopkins was 22-1 when the fought, Roy beat him with one hand. What a joke. As for Toney, Toney did not win a single round. NOT ONE ROUND.

Either you are a Jones hater, or simply blind to the facts. How can you say a fighter who fought when they were 44-0-1 at their peak and champion...and you simply discredit that fight and say "well if Jones fougth him at his peak or in shape" Come on. they fought, Roy moved up to him, and he did not win a single round.

NUFF SAID!

Interesting, I actually have different articles that are discussing Toney's weight problems. Would you want me to provide the links? Toney weighed in at 214 2 weeks before fight night and had to be hospitalized and hooked up to Ivs so he wouldn't pass out. Do you want to tell me that Toney was at his best again? Give me a break

[wpink1]

What success did Toney and Hopkins have vs Roy....Toney lost every single round. Hagler...yes the same hagler who lost 2 fights earlier, the same hagler that fought a draw with Anetfermo..the same hagler that barely beat a blown up lightweight at the end of their career,the same hagler that lost to a welterweight that had only 1 fight in 5 years, and he was only 32, well rested. Your talking about that Hagler right?


As for you tryin to educate me about about how a jab beats speed, save it, cuz that is what I have been preaching all along,,,,Forrest Mosley. Hearns leanard. I agree with that. However Hearns used his jab vs Leonard didnt he? What happened in rounds 6-7, 13 and 14. Whenever Ray wanted to attack Hearns off of counters...I repeat...Off of Counters then he did and was very successful.

You talk about how Ray took it to fighters, yes he did, but he also moved much much more than Roy did. In fact Ray was on his bicycle more than any current fighter. Roy never ran from fighters. and his counters would eat Hearns alive. I am not sure what your looking at but Leonard himself has said Roy awkwardness would have posed major major major problems for the big 4. Dundee himself said Roy was a better fighter than most thought,and has beaten better opposition than most greats..... He also said he would not favor any of of the great 4 vs Jones. Roberto Duran said it was murder fighting Jones at Middleweight. He told Pazienza not to even think about it.

You simply don't know boxing if you believe Toney and hopkins could beat him and discredit how easily Roy beat them. Very wishful thinking. I repeat Toney did not win a round. Not one single Round. You say roy was green, but he was a middleweight when he MOVED UP and beat Toney. Check your facts, and there were other champions that he beat at middleweight, who had held their belt.

I was like you too once upon a time, doubting roy etc. But that conversation with Dundee and then looking at his fights, and comparing his success's etc to those of others...Roy is a all time great, and should be ranked up there with Leonard, as leonard struggled with fighters that Roy would have toyed with on a pound per pound basis. Leonard allowed a lightweight to move up and beat him, hmmmmm. Roy moved up and beat a heavyweight champion. Roy Campaigned at 168 and 175. Leonard may have been able to campaign at 154 and 160 effectively but he didnt, due to retirment. Leonard (who is my favorit of all time) only beat older fighters at the hgher weights, and pretty much (like hagler and hearns) chose not to fight the Julian jacksosn, Nunn's, McCallum's. They got their name off of fighting each other. Which is not bad and is better than others can say, but the truth is Leonard and Hearns never beat any top fighters (Hearns did beat Hill,,,Roy stopped him with a body punch) at the higher weight classes except for Ray SD over hagler. Roy easily beat campaigned and beat the champions of 160 168 an 175, Did Ray and hearns and Hagler have tha type of success moving up?

[wpink1]

Southpaw I never said Toney didnt have weight issues, but so did Duran, so did Roy, so did many fighters. That is no excuse now is it? Toney was a professsional of 45 fights at that time, if we make excuses for him then we have to for everyone. Roy moved up to a weight class he was not accustomed too, didnt he?

The point is they stepped in the ring, and Toney got destroyed...easily, didnt in a round.

[slicksouthpaw16]

What success did Toney and Hopkins have vs Roy....Toney lost every single round. Hagler...yes the same hagler who lost 2 fights earlier, the same hagler that fought a draw with Anetfermo..the same hagler that barely beat a blown up lightweight at the end of their career,the same hagler that lost to a welterweight that had only 1 fight in 5 years, and he was only 32, well rested. Your talking about that Hagler right?

No offense, but your acting as if age is an indicator of how a fighter should perform in boxing is nothing more than laughable. We can go through plenty of fighters that were old in boxing at an early age. Look at Duran, Hagler, Ali, Jones, Robinson ectetra. All was past it when they were in their middle 30s and down. When you have a fighter such as these whom have such great stamina and work ethic ( on top of all of the punches taken and weight drain), they could very well become burned out in training alone. You have to maintain hard training to be conditioned as well as these atheltes. Take Floyd Mayweather for example. He has barely taken any punishment throughout his entire career, but yet he is past his prime. Notice his foot movement, jab and reflexes when he was at super feather to lightweight? All have slowed down and he is no longer at his best. Why? Becuase all of the amature fights and all of the hard training that he does is taking their toll on him. Its the same with Hagler. He has all of those fights before he was recognized by the public and we all see how hard he trains. Do you seriously believe that he was in his prime against Duran or Leonard? Please, many boxing anaylist that have i talked to belives that Hagler's prime ended in the 1970s, before he became recognized.

Also, i scored 3 rounds for Toney. Jones cleary won the fight, however Toney made the fight interesting when he had the energy to fight. He had the perfect game plan. Feints, hooks to the body, counter punches and lead right hands (which Jones was vulnerable to). Imagine if Jones tangled with the in shape energetic version of James Toney that fought Iran Barkely? When Toney could keep up the pace and fight for every round. We probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now. You complain about Jones being weight drained against Tarver and Johnson, but never mentions Toney? A fighter that actually had to be hospitalized before the contest? Your facts are what needs to be checked.

As for you tryin to educate me about about how a jab beats speed, save it, cuz that is what I have been preaching all along,,,,Forrest Mosley. Hearns leanard. I agree with that. However Hearns used his jab vs Leonard didnt he? What happened in rounds 6-7, 13 and 14. Whenever Ray wanted to attack Hearns off of counters...I repeat...Off of Counters then he did and was very successful.

What happened in rounds 6-7 and 13-14 against Leonard? Hearns fadded and Ray was able to capitalize on it. Because he was being easily out pointed from a distance and when he would get on the inside earlier, then he would catch counter jabs and hard right hands from Hearns. I hate to sound unreasonable here, but that was the point in which Hearns had his stamina. Leonard was easily being out boxed.

You talk about how Ray took it to fighters, yes he did, but he also moved much much more than Roy did. In fact Ray was on his bicycle more than any current fighter. Roy never ran from fighters. and his counters would eat Hearns alive. I am not sure what your looking at but Leonard himself has said Roy awkwardness would have posed major major major problems for the big 4. Dundee himself said Roy was a better fighter than most thought,and has beaten better opposition than most greats..... He also said he would not favor any of of the great 4 vs Jones. Roberto Duran said it was murder fighting Jones at Middleweight. He told Pazienza not to even think about it.

When have you ever seen Hearns countered in a technical battle? He was extremely technically correct and i really didn't see a single flaw, other than his questionable chin and stamina. Jones would be the one who would be countered becuase he actually has defensive flaws which are flaws that Hearns could capitalize on. Look at all of the technical fighters that Jones struggled with and that no one mentions. Eric Harding, Lou Dell Valle and Griffin. They were all counter punchers that gave Jones hard fights. You really need to revisit some of these fighters.

Also, this is a debate. Its good that Leonard has his opinion, but i have mine as well and don't agree with him. I see Ray Robinson beating Jones as well. He had the chin and the ability to bring educated pressure and get to Jones, the way he did to Randy Turpin in the rematch. He knew that he couldn't out box him becuase Turpin's style gave him fits, so he brought the fight to him and stopped him. Great fighters have the ability to adjust and create game plans that will work better.

You simply don't know boxing if you believe Toney and hopkins could beat him and discredit how easily Roy beat them. Very wishful thinking. I repeat Toney did not win a round. Not one single Round. You say roy was green, but he was a middleweight when he MOVED UP and beat Toney. Check your facts, and there were other champions that he beat at middleweight, who had held their belt.

You mean, i simply have an opinion that you don't agree with. Thats fine, but many people will agree that you need to rethink some of your last posts. Your underestimation of Hagler and Hearns leave me to think if you have seen any other fight besides at their worst.

Also yes, Jones beat another title holder and middleweight but you have to look at who he is. The great Thomas Tate? I worry if thats your indication of anything.

I wouldn't be worked up with the last part of your post. I read it and you showed your lack of knowledge on Hagler and disrepect towards him. I am seriously wondering if you have seen any fight of him when he was actually in his prime and not just looking on Boxrec or youtube highlights. The man was fantastic and could do it all. Out box his opponent, out brawl his opponent out smart his opponents ectera.

I also don't understand where you think that i am a Jones hater, in fact he is one of my favorites. Hes one of the best fighters to watch and had eye catching talent, but I need to see something that indicates weather or not that fighter would beat all time greats like Hagler and Hearns and Jones has not shown that. He has never been seriously pressured when he was in his prime and he also has not had to dig down deep to win a fight. Both things that he will have to do against the greats.
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[slicksouthpaw16]

Also Wpink, if you want to pick out flaws from different fighters, then you might wanna take a look at this video. I read in an article that after this fight, Jones stated that he never wanted to face a southpaw again. Dell Valle is a southpaw, decent ability, ok handspeed however, he was never a major player in any division. What if that was Hagler (an ELITE versitale southpaw) that had Jones knees buckled like that? Jones has struggled with every southpaw that he has faced. See Jones Harding, Jones Dell Valle and the Tarver/Jones series. All southpaws that troubled Jones. Neither fighter could hold a candle to a prime Marvin Hagler.

[THE REED]

Also Wpink, if you want to pick out flaws from different fighters, then you might wanna take a look at this video. I read in article that after this fight, Jones stated that he never wanted to face a southpaw against. Dell Valle is a southpaw, decent ability, ok handspeed however, he was never a major player in any division. What if that was Hagler ( a versitale southpaw) that had Jones knees buckled like that?

that was a slip, a clear slip, ive watched it over and over and over, u can tell when hes stepping out his footing misses

[THE REED]

that was a slip, a clear slip, ive watched it over and over and over, u can tell when hes stepping out his footing misses

thats a ****ty video of it, they mustve taken down the replay one from different angles

look how he fell? its unbelievably obvious.... he got hit, stood there... and then literally looked like his footing missed and he fell

[slicksouthpaw16]

thats a ****ty video of it, they mustve taken down the replay one from different angles

look how he fell? its unbelievably obvious.... he got hit, stood there... and then literally looked like his footing missed and he fell

Jim Lamply's words ''Roy Jones cleanly knocked down by a left hand from Lou Dell Valle''. His feet were in place and when he was hit, you could see his legs buckle and the sweet flying off of his face. He got up and boxed carefully for the entire fight. He was also embarrassed as well. My question is, why would he be embarrassed if he knew that he only slipped? I give Jones credit though, he got up from the first knock down in his career and seemed to handle it. Would have been bad if he had a finisher in there though.

[THE REED]

Jim Lamply's words ''Roy Jones cleanly knocked down by a left hand from Lou Dell Valle''. His feet were in place and when he was hit, you could see his legs buckle and the sweet flying off of his face. He got up and boxed carefully for the entire fight. He was also embarrassed as well. My question is, why would he be embarrassed if he knew that he only slipped? I give Jones credit though, he got up from the first knock down in his career and seemed to handle it. Would have been bad if he had a finisher in there.

Jim Lampley is calling that on the fly... and he DID get hit... but his footing got misplaced, its unbelievably obvious when you watch the way he moves his back foot and then just falls.... hes embarassed cuz he got hit and knows he went down, its a legitimate knockdown whether he slipped or not, because he did get hit... but he didnt go down because of that punch

how come i only catch you EVER talking negative on roy?

[T-97]

Jim Lampley is calling that on the fly... and he DID get hit... but his footing got misplaced, its unbelievably obvious when you watch the way he moves his back foot and then just falls.... hes embarassed cuz he got hit and knows he went down, its a legitimate knockdown whether he slipped or not, because he did get hit... but he didnt go down because of that punch

how come i only catch you EVER talking negative on roy?

I have to agree with reed here. I watched this fight a few days ago and the replay clearly showed that he was hit, then he stepped back lost his footing and fell. The punch didnt put him down really, he lost footing.