For all the Roy Jones haters

[sL0]

Yes I said "playing with him". Take this into account. Griffin took him 9 rounds and it was a pretty good fight. Roy Jones was in what I call Roy Jones cruise control. Letting the fight happen so to speak. Think back to when he fought Richard Hall. You think he could've knocked Hall out sooner than the 11th? Absolutely. Do I think he could've took Griffin out much sooner. Absolutely. Now in the second fight, Roy took it out of cruise control, put his foot on the gas, and almost decapitated Griffin. He blew him out in 1 round. The same fighter you say was giving him all kinds of trouble in the previous fight. It was no luck he took him out. Roy Jones allowed a lot of his opponents to stick around longer in their fights. Hence Griffin.

[wpink1]

Funny people want to talk about who roy didnt fight....But what about who other legends didnt fight. Duran didnt fight Arguello, skipped right by Pryor. Leonard didnt fight cuevas, palimino..By the way Leonard is my favorite fighter of all time. Hagler did not move up and face anyone ever, and his greatest wins where vs welters who moved up. Hearns could have faced jackson, Nunn, McCallum etc...

These are the great four that always gets respect of fighting everyone.

Roy is not my favorite, but he would have destroyed everyone one of these fighters at middleweight. DESTROYED! Leonard himself said that they (the great 4) where very very lucky that Roy didnt fight during their reign as he was soo strong, fast and awkward, would have posed serious threats.

[wpink1]

Norma first you. You have to be insane to think the Roy can beat lewis or Tyson. Not a chance. I think roy is pound per pound one the best ever but he would get destroyed by a young Holyfield, a prime Tyson and any version of Lewis.

Now for the idiot on here that thinks that Griffin really caused Roy problems that Roy did not allow to happen. You can see through out the fight that roy simply was not trying. He was playing with him not moving. He actualy was effortlessly falling back into the ropes so that he could counter instead of using his legs and amazing boxing abilties like he used vs Toney etc... How about the later rounds when Roy started winning, and then the round Roy dropped him and unfortunately lost his cool. Roy was starting to handle Griffen easily.

Hmmm how about the rematch!!!!

[TheGreatA]

Now for the idiot on here that thinks that Griffin really caused Roy problems that Roy did not allow to happen. You can see through out the fight that roy simply was not trying. He was playing with him not moving. He actualy was effortlessly falling back into the ropes so that he could counter instead of using his legs and amazing boxing abilties like he used vs Toney etc... How about the later rounds when Roy started winning, and then the round Roy dropped him and unfortunately lost his cool. Roy was starting to handle Griffen easily.

The problem here is that Jones did the same thing against Toney, Hopkins and others as well.


What is he doing here against Toney? Throwing a short feint jab and laying on the ropes.
The difference here is that Toney is not working at all even when Jones is against the ropes, he was too gassed. Amazing because he had only thrown about 300 punches.


What is he doing here against Hopkins? Laying on the ropes and getting tagged for it.


What is Jones doing here against Vinny freakin' Pazienza? Laying on the ropes again.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r6d0WOk-QuU
Same here against the wild and ineffective Bryant Brannon.

He could do this against most of his opponents but Griffin came into the fight with a well thought-out gameplan and should be given more credit for it. Roy lost his cool because he was being frustrated.

Jones figured Griffin out, yes, he figured out that he could simply walk through Griffin's punches which did not have much power behind them.
Roy Jones is a smart fighter and came out like an animal in the rematch but that kind of wild aggression would not necessarily work against all fighters.

It's as if 'that Roy' for some people would decapitate all fighters from MW to LHW although it's not the kind of a style what Roy is really about.
He can't go in there and walk through, for example, Bob Foster's punches...

[robjr]

The problem here is that Jones did the same thing against Toney, Hopkins and others as well.


What is he doing here against Toney? Throwing a short feint jab and laying on the ropes.
The difference here is that Toney is not working at all even when Jones is against the ropes, he was too gassed. Amazing because he had only thrown about 300 punches.


What is he doing here against Hopkins? Laying on the ropes and getting tagged for it.


What is Jones doing here against Vinny freakin' Pazienza? Laying on the ropes again.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r6d0WOk-QuU
Same here against the wild and ineffective Bryant Brannon.

He could do this against most of his opponents but Griffin came into the fight with a well thought-out gameplan and should be given more credit for it. Roy lost his cool because he was being frustrated.

Jones figured Griffin out, yes, he figured out that he could simply walk through Griffin's punches which did not have much power behind them.
Roy Jones is a smart fighter and came out like an animal in the rematch but that kind of wild aggression would not necessarily work against all fighters.

It's as if 'that Roy' for some people would decapitate all fighters from MW to LHW although it's not the kind of a style what Roy is really about.
He can't go in there and walk through, for example, Bob Foster's punches...

dude captures titles in 160,168,175, and heavyweight.. holds p4p title for 10 yrs.. and the guy still dindt do enough to satisfy you..

[MWMerlino]

Some of you guys are really working hard to discredit Jones...

lol @ throwing a feint jab and "laying" against the ropes. What kind of a punch did he knock those boxers down with? Jones will be on everyone's top 20 p4p after they have enough time to look back and appreciate his style and skill and power.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Some of you guys are really working hard to discredit Jones...

lol @ throwing a feint jab and "laying" against the ropes. What kind of a punch did he knock those boxers down with? Jones will be on everyone's top 20 p4p after they have enough time to look back and appreciate his style and skill and power.

Hes (TheManchine) not trying to discredit anything, he simply saying that Jones is not unbeatable and that many people overrate him. Which i agree with. We all know that Jones is a great fighter and one of the most skilled. However, i would favor a bunch of middleweights and light heavyweights from the past over him. I would give Hagler, Hearns(even at middleweight), Peak in shape Toney, Peak Hopkins and Gerald MCcellann(who beat Jones in the amatuers) good shots at beating him.

[wpink1]

These people always discredit greats. Ali was discredited, Michael Jordan, and now Roy Jones. I was also for a while targeting those who he did not fight however after being at a junior golden gloves tournament a couple of years ago and talking with Dundee he made me accept he the truth, and analyze who Roy DID fight.

When I compare Roy to Leonard etc...He is faster, stronger, gets hit less, easily beat very good opponents, when Ray struggled, and get this, Ray Leonard is my favorite fighter off all time, but I have to be honest, if Ray fought Jones it would be murder.

Roy jones is the most naturally gifted fighter since Robinson. He was faster at Middleweight than leonard was a welter. He had more power pound per pound than Leonard had. Leonard said himself that he and the rest of the big 4 where lucky they did not fight in the same era as Roy based his speed, power, and awkwardness.

As for Tommy hearns, what a joke vs Roy Jones. He got ko'd at Welter by Leonard, how can you even put your fingers to a keyboard and think he could beat Roy at Middleweight. Just who did he beat at middleweight and above. Wasnt his greating win vs Cuevas, and then a overblown Duran, and had a draw (should have won_) vs a shot Leonard. Come on people get real. Hearns had glass jaw, and had he fougth a bigger faster stronger vs of leoanrd who had much faster counters, Wow...this would not have even been a fight.

Hagler would get embarrassed. He was not shot when he faced leonard. He was only 32. Had just ko'd his best 3 opponentns, had not lost in 10 years. Hagler simply was not used to dealing with speed and movement. He struggled vs Antefermo the first time, and then Duran in 83. Roy would destroy Hagler. EASILY....

At Middleweight Roy was simply devastating. he easily beat Hopkins, and Toney, and this was when he used his foot movment angles, and speed to keep his back off the ropes. That version is the version I am talking about, not the version that started becoming bored with boxing and played basketball before hand, would lay on the ropes and purposelly take punches so that the fight would be more interesting for the fans. Hell you saw what happened when he wanted to really go after someone. In the first Griffen fight he lay on the ropes fought lazily, didnt really try until later in the fight, and then was whipping Griffen across the ring, dropped him and had him hurt until he made a ****** mistake. What happened in the return fight?

He did actually lose until he had to deal with removing 30 pounds of muscle and also he was 35, all of this together was too much for body and he did not retain his great instinct, speed etc. Yes he failed to utilize many basic traits but so what. He did not have too, he was soo fast that he did not have to throw a jab, he simply countered in a split second. His counters set up his punches, vs a jab like dlh and leonard used. It was more effective.

[wpink1]

The machine, Roy layed against the ropes because he could. He played with Griffen, looke what happened when he wanted to destroy him?

You pick out faults on Roy that did not even become an issue until he was over 35. Hmm how about Ali's faults lack of great power, no body punching, pull his head back from punches. Duran faults, could not deal with movement, droppped his head when he charged in and was easily hit by hooks and upper cuts and ray showed in round 5-7 in montreal and all of New Orleans, just imagine if Duran fought vs Mayweather or Jones like that he would have never won vs them. Hearns had a glass jaw, got hit with Rights, Hagler struggled vs boxers, speed, etc.

Point is everyone has some *****s, but Roy in his peak willingly went the ropes because he became bored with how easy he could beat even great fighters.

Slick south paw...come on your kidding me....hearns has not chance beating roy...None...he got hurt by leonard at welter, got stopped by hagler, and barkly. Who great has he beat at THEIR PEAK? Hopkins was 22-1 when the fought, Roy beat him with one hand. What a joke. As for Toney, Toney did not win a single round. NOT ONE ROUND.

Either you are a Jones hater, or simply blind to the facts. How can you say a fighter who fought when they were 44-0-1 at their peak and champion...and you simply discredit that fight and say "well if Jones fougth him at his peak or in shape" Come on. they fought, Roy moved up to him, and he did not win a single round.

NUFF SAID!

[slicksouthpaw16]

As for Tommy hearns, what a joke vs Roy Jones. He got ko'd at Welter by Leonard, how can you even put your fingers to a keyboard and think he could beat Roy at Middleweight. Just who did he beat at middleweight and above. Wasnt his greating win vs Cuevas, and then a overblown Duran, and had a draw (should have won_) vs a shot Leonard. Come on people get real. Hearns had glass jaw, and had he fougth a bigger faster stronger vs of leoanrd who had much faster counters, Wow...this would not have even been a fight.

You make a lot of excuses for Jones, but fail to be fair towards Hagler, Hearns ect. You are also ignoring the key points in Hearns/Jones. When and i repeat when, has Roy jones brought the fight to a power puncher and didn't box cautiously? Never, he has always boxed carefully against fighter whom he respected and anyone beating Hearns in a technical battle is something that has never had and also something that i couldn't see happen. Hearns had a longer reach ( by four inches to be exact), was the better out boxer, better technique, more accurate puncher and had reflexes of his own. Straight punches and consistant jabs are the key to speed fighters. Revisit Barrera vs Hamed or Forrest vs Mosley if you want an idea. Hearns had the ability to negate Jones's game by the keeping the fight on the outside and countering effectively timing Jones on the way in. Despite Hopkins and Toney not being at their best, both had success in spurts doing it. That is why me and many other observers gives Toney and Hopkins on their besy day a shot at upsetting Jones. In fact, the Hopkins that beat Glen Johnson and John David jackson would give Jones nightmares.

Like i have said before (which you ignored as well as many other of my points) Leonard, Barkely and Hagler are all great inside fighters and turned puncher to get Hearns out. if jones stayed on the inside against Hearns, then he would be giving making the fight easier, becuase that is the only way that he will win. We can be fans of Jones and imagine that he would do something but I actually go by what i seen happen and what is there. Fact is that Jones was a very green fighter at middleweight and the only name fighter that he beat was Bernard Hopkins, who was as green as he was. nothing indicates that he would stand a chance against Hagler or Hearns. Hagler would really be a horrible style for Jones. He would get on the inside and rough Jones up. Jones didn't like it ugly and Hagler would get in there. The the first round against Hearns, the first thing on Hagler's mind was to go to the body. He has too much skill, too much raw natural ability and too much toughest for Jones even on his best day. Roy has never recieved the kind of heat that he would get if he faced a prime marvin Hagler. Its seems like you have only seen him against leonard and Duran becuase they are the only fights that you talk about. You need to revisit Hagler. Peak Hagler was a lot more elusive, mobile, had better foot work and was faster than the version in his later days. He didn't get a shot at a title until he was heading over the hill. There is a strong possibility that we never got a chance to see Marvin at his very best.