Ali vs Holmes - who wins?

[Dr. Z]

I give it to Holmes. Ali had issues with good jabbers his entire career. Doug Jones, Kenny Norton, Ron Lyle, and Jimmy Young for example. Ali was probably behind at one point in all of these fights and IMO should have lost to Young. Bob Foster didn't last very long but he did cut Ali with his jab.


Holmes has perhaps the best all time jab. It was fast, hard, it had range and could be fired all night. Ali often took breaks during the action. Ali really didn't throw any body shots, hooks or uppercuts. Holmes did. So Holmes has the better jab, threw more punches and had a versatility edge. He also wasn't silly in the ring and could catch the un-orthodox Ali with his hook, the same way other did though not with the same effect. Both guys had good chins so the probability of a KO/TKO, prime vs prime is low.

I like Holmes on decision, 10-5 or 9-6, but this is Ali and the judges were extra nice to him so 9-6 or 8-7 is more likely.

[QueensburyRules]

- -If prime Ali held the WBA title, no way Holmesy fights him...boxing 101...

- -As if any reiteration were needed, here 'tis...

[PRINCEKOOL]

Muhammad Ali was more durable, and that is not a discredit on Holmes 'As his durability was very high'.

I think the Muhammad Ali who fought Foreman, Frazier and Norton would all beat Holmes 'I don't think you have to pick at 60's version Muhammad Ali at all'.

Note: Muhammad Ali trained to the level of his perceived threat, I think he would take Larry Holmes very seriously.

[Dr. Z]

Muhammad Ali was more durable, and that is not a discredit on Holmes 'As his durability was very high'.

I think the Muhammad Ali who fought Foreman, Frazier and Norton would all beat Holmes 'I don't think you have to pick at 60's version Muhammad Ali at all'.

Note: Muhammad Ali trained to the level of his perceived threat, I think he would take Larry Holmes very seriously.

I don't know if you can say that. For example Norton never hurt Holmes, but he hurt Ali clearly and if the first fight was 15 rounds instead of 12, might have stopped Ali.

Ali was a little lucky to snap out of it vs Henry Cooper. Smelling salts, which are illegal in British boxing were used by the crafty Dundee for Ali. There is film of it. When Ali comes to, his eyes look like pinballs. There was also a delay between rounds. How many seconds, I don't know for sure. What can be said is if the count was 12 seconds, many would get up. Fair? My point, an extra few seconds in a corner can mean something if your out of it.

Holmes himself was battle tested vs punchers. Many of them. His chin was very solid.

Both guys were durable. I do not see a TKO/KO here. I see Holmes out jabbing Ali, just like some of his opponents did, and Holmes jab was better than all of them bu a good margin.

[billeau2]

Ali didn't need a lot of punches, it was in the feet, in the ability to see what an opponent was setting up for. Holmes cant get to prime Ali.

[them_apples]

Ali would have beat Holmes. Holmes was a good heavy that came around at the right time.

All the cons vs Ali were when he was on the slide, Just look at Holmes on the slide, even without parkinsons - and see what he became.

How does old Holmes do when hes on his last legs vs an up and coming killer? well for one Tyson hammered him, and he wasnt even as far gone as Ali was, who literally shouldnt have been allowed to fight.

he nearly gets killed by Shavers and squeaks out a decision over Norton.

Then at his absolute best he takes on a good but green up and coming fighter (cooney) and shows him hes too experienced at that point, and still pretty hungry.

That sums up Holmes career. he never had to go h2h with killers though

[Anthony342]

Ali didn't need a lot of punches, it was in the feet, in the ability to see what an opponent was setting up for. Holmes cant get to prime Ali.

This right here. Ali by decision.

[billeau2]

This right here. Ali by decision.

How you guys with the blizzard? My sisters are having a time of it.

[Dynamite76]

Ali by a decision, strong unanimous. He is on a different level than even the great Larry Holmes.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I give it to Holmes. Ali had issues with good jabbers his entire career. Doug Jones, Kenny Norton, Ron Lyle, and Jimmy Young for example. Ali was probably behind at one point in all of these fights and IMO should have lost to Young. Bob Foster didn't last very long but he did cut Ali with his jab.


Holmes has perhaps the best all time jab. It was fast, hard, it had range and could be fired all night. Ali often took breaks during the action. Ali really didn't throw any body shots, hooks or uppercuts. Holmes did. So Holmes has the better jab, threw more punches and had a versatility edge. He also wasn't silly in the ring and could catch the un-orthodox Ali with his hook, the same way other did though not with the same effect. Both guys had good chins so the probability of a KO/TKO, prime vs prime is low.

I like Holmes on decision, 10-5 or 9-6, but this is Ali and the judges were extra nice to him so 9-6 or 8-7 is more likely.

In all of the fights you mentioned other than Doug Jones, Ali was clearly past his prime and in the case of Jones, I don't recall him troubling Ali with the jab especially on a consistent basis. If anyone's jab was a factor in that fight, it was definitely Ali's. Historically, Liston and Holmes are seen on about the same level in terms of the jab, and Ali avoided Liston's jab with ease. Holmes definitely isn't beating Ali on his jab alone.

Also personally, I never agreed with the notion that Ali struggled with Ron Lyle. Ali played mind games with him, then took him into deep waters and drowned him. Lyle refused to chase Ali and didn't even seem to want to let his hands go at all until Ali started out boxing (and rocking him) Lyle on his toes in the middle of the ring. Then Lyle finally let his hands go, faded because of his horrible stamina and was stopped. Just wasn't that competitive IMO.