Ali is Overrated

[porlie]

Prime Ali to me is sixties Ali, the seventies Ali did win some dodgy decisions but who are these people who could beat him??

[Verstyle]

Can someone name 10 HWs from any era who could beat a prime Ali????
No you cant, that shows when he was in his prime he was the greatest.

Calm down buddy.He's not God.

[StarshipTrooper]

Calm down buddy.He's not God.

Neither's Tyson LOL!

Poet

[porlie]

Calm down buddy.He's not God.

LOL I know he's not, he's not my fave HW but I dont see how people say hes overrated, yeah he got some decisions he shouldnt have in the 70s but in the 60s I'd pick him to beat anyone. The toughest fight for prime Ali would be a prime Marciano IMO.

[BKM-]

He's overrated because people think he would not lose a fight to anyone. But he would lose fights to some greats, but he would most likely win most of the fight in a trilogy.
Anyone that is portrayed as invincible is overrated.

[Brassangel]

Hmm. That sounds pretty sarcastic and condescending to me. People who think differently than you do are "rediculous" and "hipocratical". No matter how you try and softsoap it "kiddies" is condescending. Apparently you think those who hold different views to your own are beneath you and must be educated like "kiddies.

Rave all you want, but you'll have to do it to LondonRingRules in my ignore bin. Goodbye! You are the weakest link "flush", another turd gone!

Poet

"Rediculous" was used to describe the line of thinking for forgiving every loss in Ali's career. This in no way, shape, or form denotes anything that anyone feels about Ali's greatness. This also has nothing to do about an individual who posts such things.

"Hypocritical" (pardon earlier spelling), was used to describe something hypocritical. For example: Forgiving one fighter for something that another fighter is condemned for. That, by definition, is hypocrasy.

I also get a kick out of your plug-your-ears-and-run-like-a-little-kid comments at the end of every post. Such a wimp. Once more, the conclusion weighs in: You lose by a KO, and are still extra-******.

Brassangel

Back on topic:
Anyone viewed as unbeatable is overrated. Muhammad Ali is clearly one of the two best, if not the best heavyweight of all-time. Every single fighter in the top 10, maybe even top 15 could give him trouble given the style of each opponent, ring sizes, and rules implemented (ie: newer ref's would never allow him to hold his opponents heads under his armpit; at the same time, fights are stopped way sooner as a result of cuts, etc.).

Guys like Frazier, Marciano, Tyson, and Dempsey would likely be difficult for Ali, as they brought pressure and power. They also threw combinations, and the latter two (Tyson in particular), had excellent hand speed and reaction quickness/explosiveness. Cutting off the ring and ripping into his ribs would force him to stand still once and a while, and the faster punchers could take advantage of that, throwing combinations from multiple angles; something that Foreman, and to some extent, Frazier, failed to do when given the chance.

Counterpunchers, like Lewis, Holyfield, etc., were always good at timing the jab, which could force Ali to come up with a different game plan (which I'm sure he would). Even so, these would still be tough opponents for Ali.

Joe Louis, the other #1 or #2 heavyweight, would simply be too slow and flat-footed in my opinion to have an impact on Ali's swiftness. He was laser accurate, however, and his lack of foot movement was actually a product of his own choosing. His hand speed was decent, and he could go the distance if he had to.

I'll breathe and come back later.

[LondonRingRules]

Ahem. First off practically all the quotes you're giving came from a dispute I was having with LondonRingRules, a 24 Karet ******* who was doing his level best to piss me off. Your nose has no business involved in it. Secondly you talk about how you named no names in your initial post. However you FAIL to mention that I didn't either. No names are mentioned in my initial KoolAid drinker post. Now which is it? Are you saying hypocritically that YOU can say things so long as you don't mention names but I can't? Hmm? Thirdly you protest your innocence at saying anything sarcastic or condescending:

"What's rediculous is the way people forgive him for losses suffered after exile, dismissing them because of the layoff. What's more rediculous is how people judge his "prime" as a time when he wasn't fighting. His physical prime may have been in 1967, but his boxing prime was 1971-1975. That's when he fought his biggest fights, that's when he was smarter in the ring than ever before, and that's the Ali that Dundee has said (though I'm sure he's contradicted himself at some point) he would take over any before or after.

What's funny is

** What's funny is watching you fill up your shorts in public, thankfully in virtual space rather than the nasty mess of real space.

Ali of 71-75, eh?

OK, put up a scrappy fight against Frazier, but really bad ringmanship. Clowning, underpowered, and knocked down twice. Yeah, TWICE.

Did a number on Ellis, good performance.

Blin? Distant cousin to Peter McNeeley?

Mathis. Ugly. Watch the fight. UGLY!

Mac Foster. Never saw the fight, but he won. Thing is, Quarry KOed Mac.

Chuvalo. He never looked good against Chuvalo, he just looked more talented and younger and took his shots like a man.

Quarry. He did a workmanlike job on Quarry.

Lewis. Lewis put up a heck of a scrap. Ali actually had to fight, but he looked pretty good for a change.

Patterson. Ok he showed he was better than an older Patterson.

Bob Foster. Cut Ali up with his jab before falling. A decent win.

Bugner. Closer fight than the cards. Not a wide win in the ring.

Norton 1. Busted jaw and shut out.

Norton 2. Better showing, but Ali still lost decisively regardless of the cards.

Lubbers. McNeeley's ******ed uncle. At least it wasn't a title bout, but it sure went the distance. Shame, shame, shame as Gomer used to say.

Frazier 2. Lethargic with mediocre performances by both. Ali lost best to best when it counted.

Foreman. Showed all time heart, but took an all time pounding as well. His best win in a fight he looked terrible in.

Wepner. 15 rds against one of the most notorious bleeders in history? Maybe if he'd thrown a punch he might've had an easier time instead of whining to the ref about the 200 rabbit punches Wepner landed.

Lyle. Shut out on the cards by Lyle? Even Cosel thought the fight was stopped prematurely. Lyle was just playing possum. Pretty fishy to lots of people.

Bugner again. Never saw the fight, but Ali win.

Frazier 3. Frazier never forgave Futch for stopping the fight. Ali was busy quitting in his corner when Futch stopped it.

Sorry, but other than Frazier 1 fight that he was overpowered and out hustled in, the Ellis fight that he dominated, the rest of the fights are only either decent wins or dodgy decisions with a few fights against really bad tomato cans.

No wonder you're the Don't Know It Poet. You just damned Ali with faint praise!

[StarshipTrooper]

I wonder if Brass******* and LondonSheep****er realise I have them on ignore LOL! I don't think it's a stretch to presume that those two mental midgets are running their gobs about me since their only reason to be on this thread seems to be to slag off on me! Clearly they need lives. See, unlike them, I don't get off on flame posts. That may be what THEY consider fun but I don't. If I light into someone it's because they've insulted me and pissed me off; but even then there are limits to how much of that I'm willing to do. Eventually I just shut them up.....permanently. Hence the ignore list, where I'm sure they'll have fun flaming each other! Then again, maybe they ARE simply flaming, and no doubt will have scads of fun buttslamming each other in my bin. Have a "nice" life **** weeds!

Poet

[Verstyle]

Neither's Tyson LOL!

Poet

Never said he was. So you can take your Tyson hate else where. Its clear you dont favor Tyson like alot of ppl do. You dont need to always drop hints. Neither will I be pissed if I said you didnt like him. Tyson isnt my Dad,nor is he my good friend.He's just a fighter that I take alot of my style from. Get over yourself.

[Verstyle]

LOL I know he's not, he's not my fave HW but I dont see how people say hes overrated, yeah he got some decisions he shouldnt have in the 70s but in the 60s I'd pick him to beat anyone. The toughest fight for prime Ali would be a prime Marciano IMO.

He's not overrated. All ppl dont like to agree on the same things so they just say **** to draw attention.