Ali is Overrated

[butterfly1964]

He was visibly wobbling. Even while in the corner his eyes were glossy. He stood up quickly because that's what he always did. It not only ensured that a ref wouldn't wave the fight off, but it also discouraged opponents who felt as though they put their opponent down hard.

I'm not saying that he absolutely would have lost, but given Poet's earlier claims, made in rant, it's only fair to point the finger the other way, covering both sides of the coin.

No, he wasn't. I didnt see it. And if he stood up quickly whether he was trying to send a message or not, if he really was in as bad of shape as you say, he would have trouble getting up anyway. Seriously, what do you think would have happened if Clay didn't get the extra nine or so seconds? Do you think that he would walk right into a Henry left hook and be layed out cold? Or maybe the corner would stop the fight? Or what? I still see the same outcome that actually happened. Ali had amazing recuperative powers and he would have won the fight period.

[kayjay]

Funny how Yogi wasn't really trying to make 'ali is overrated' the topic of the thread, but it goes on anyway

[Frazier's 15th round]

We must always remember that half-blind, diabetes, hypertension Frazier easily beat Ali 11-4 in the FOTC. And average Norton beat him twice. There were several robberies involving Ali but I won't get into them.

[StarshipTrooper]

We must always remember that half-blind, diabetes, hypertension Frazier easily beat Ali 11-4 in the FOTC. And average Norton beat him twice. There were several robberies involving Ali but I won't get into them.

Okay. I'm going to say this one last time so that even pea brain here can understand it.

Frazier.....did.....not.....lose.....sight.....in. ....one.....of.....his.....eyes.....
until.....his.....third.....fight.....with.....Ali

Is this **** and Jane enough for you? Frazier had two good eyes in the FOTC. Furthermore you give no evidence that he had diabetes and hypertension at the time of the fight. He could very well have developed those later as well.

Apparently you're own who'll never let the facts stand in the way of attempting to discredit a fighter you don't like.

Poet

[Frazier's 15th round]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Frazier developed cataracts before he even turned professional. ***got.

[StarshipTrooper]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Frazier developed cataracts before he even turned professional. ***got.

Not according to Frazier's own auto-biography. And take the name calling to the Thunderdome.

Poet

[butterfly1964]

We must always remember that half-blind, diabetes, hypertension Frazier easily beat Ali 11-4 in the FOTC. And average Norton beat him twice. There were several robberies involving Ali but I won't get into them.

This is why you were banned from East Side Forums.

[butterfly1964]

Not according to Frazier's own auto-biography. And take the name calling to the Thunderdome.

Poet

Actually, he is right on that issue. His doctor urged Frazier to go through surgury before he turned pro to save his eye, but Frazier decided not to jeopardize his boxing career so he let it be.

[Brassangel]

He decided not to jeopardize his boxing career and in turn, jeopardized his own abilities in the ring.

Also, in bad shape or not (during the exchange with Cooper), Ali was disciplined. He knew his own ability to recover. Obviously Cooper didn't land a KO punch the likes of Shavers, but it did scramble Ali's eggs a little bit. When they were "fixing" his glove in the corner, Ali's eyes were not set straight. If he would have immediately gotten back into the scuffle instead of being granted the break, he would have been a touch sloppy. Does that mean Cooper would have beaten him? Absolutely not. Does it show that there's a little myth to the mayhem? Definitely. Even so, this was simply the other side of a coin designed to showcase the hypocrasy which surrounds a man often given every excuse and praise over everyone else.

Just as a side note:

I've noticed that in Ali vs. Frazier II, Ali looked a lot more like his old self than he did in the other two fights. He danced for almost all of the 12 rounds, his punches were very snappy and accurate, and Frazier barely got anything done. He still cut off the ring at times, and worked the body, but he wasn't landing clean, bombastic hooks as he was in fights 1 and 3. While Joe was starting to decline following his fight with Foreman, I think that this very well could have been a more accurate portrayal of what may have happened had they fought in their prime.

[Frazier's 15th round]

The first fight is the most accurate portrayal. Ali tried to dance in round 5, but Frazier easily caught up to him and landed some good shots. Prime Frazier would have beaten the dancing Ali with relative ease.

Convenient how people use the second fight where Ali clinched the whole night and landed pitter patter punches as the fight that would have determined the outcome in their primes. Frazier didn't even swarm that night, Eddie Futch apparently had Frazier change his stance. He just stood there with his gloves up. The bobbing and weaving was key for Frazier to beat Ali.