Sultan Ibragimov destroying Size Myths?

[CletusVanDamme]

Ok, i am aware that there are special cases where a big man is very skilled for his size ie Lennox Lewis, Rid**** Bowe, the Klitchko's etc. But the majority of the newest generation is NOT, and there are MANY people who love to claim that the this generation is superior to the old. Back in the day every good fighter had the skills, wich is the most important. How many great skilled big men are there today? And can make their size really become an advantage? Not many, especially because their steroid lard is not natural.

Look at how Chris Byrd whiped the floor with these unskilled, slow big men. And then met his match against the natural sized fighters like the Klitchkos, and still gave a good account of himself. I can easily see the older lean fighters doing the same.

Also, you might have had experience fighting or sparring with bigger guys. But we are talking about the Legends that would have found a way to overcome that. No offense, but what might be a disadvantage to you, might be nothing to an Ali, Louis, Dempsey etc.

Holyfield was 205 fighting, Foreman, Bowe and many others early on. So I agree with you about the skills. Quarry being under 200 would still be problematic for the most part was my point. Look at the activity level of the Older guys, who now could honestly match their punch rates. Boxers of the past where more skilled for the most part.

[QueensburyRules]

The Chagaev Valuev fight was a much better example of that myth being put to bed.

Ibragimov-Briggs was a low standard fight IMO, whereas Valuev-Chagaev was a good fight - Valuev isn't awful and Chagaev fought very well.

- -Not really, Iggy was consistently taking it to Briggs where as Chagaev just rode the ropes not engaging so much he was hospitalized for Rope burns.

We know size ain't the magic be all Holy Grail, but today as as they were in their day, Dempsey, Louis, Rocky, and Ali would have a hellish gauntlet to run for a title.

[BKM-]

I saw the title first and thought "Who's the jerkoff who asked this question?" and then I saw it was made by me when I was a kid

Thanks Queen ya jerkoff.

- -Not really, Iggy was consistently taking it to Briggs where as Chagaev just rode the ropes not engaging so much he was hospitalized for Rope burns.

We know size ain't the magic be all Holy Grail, but today as as they were in their day, Dempsey, Louis, Rocky, and Ali would have a hellish gauntlet to run for a title.

So you've seen a ton of the old threads I made in the past. Do you agree with that version of me? I was also a Tyson fanboy back then mind you. We would have gotten along well I think.

[Marchegiano]

I saw the title first and thought "Who's the jerkoff who asked this question?" and then I saw it was made by me when I was a kid

Thanks Queen ya jerkoff.



So you've seen a ton of the old threads I made in the past. Do you agree with that version of me? I was also a Tyson fanboy back then mind you. We would have gotten along well I think.

I felt like you had raised a decent point.

At that time those were both good wins by smaller HW. Sultan-Briggs and Haye-Valuev.

I've been wondering recently if it's a size thing or if there just isn't any talented tough small HWs.

[QueensburyRules]

I saw the title first and thought "Who's the jerkoff who asked this question?" and then I saw it was made by me when I was a kid

Thanks Queen ya jerkoff.



So you've seen a ton of the old threads I made in the past. Do you agree with that version of me? I was also a Tyson fanboy back then mind you. We would have gotten along well I think.

- -I agree a talented big man is going to beat a talented small man most of the time, say 80%.

However, we are today in the 12 rd era with 12 oz gloves with KDs being scored that was intuitive back in the day, but sometimes erroneously today as an automatic 2 pt deduction in spite of the KDed fighter dominating the rd, a 9-9 rd even score that boxing prohibits.

Turn of the millenium when we were all green on boxing Forums, Ali fans insisted he beats Louis in size and speed in spite of a nominal 1" height advantage and near zero weight advantage and Ali speed consisting of running nonengagement early rds with Joe pressuring.

In today's world , Louis, Dempsey, and Marciano woul be introduced to sophisticated weight training and not oriented toward fine carving wt down to be 225, 215, and 220 respectively with their reflexes intact + extra power.

In short, as great today as when back then.

Putting the shoe on the other foot, how many moderns coul endure riding the rails in blistering hot and wet, freezing cold days like Dempsey or enduring the military service in ww2 like Louis and Rocky?

[JAB5239]

- -I agree a talented big man is going to beat a talented small man most of the time, say 80%.

However, we are today in the 12 rd era with 12 oz gloves with KDs being scored that was intuitive back in the day, but sometimes erroneously today as an automatic 2 pt deduction in spite of the KDed fighter dominating the rd, a 9-9 rd even score that boxing prohibits.

Turn of the millenium when we were all green on boxing Forums, Ali fans insisted he beats Louis in size and speed in spite of a nominal 1" height advantage and near zero weight advantage and Ali speed consisting of running nonengagement early rds with Joe pressuring.

In today's world , Louis, Dempsey, and Marciano woul be introduced to sophisticated weight training and not oriented toward fine carving wt down to be 225, 215, and 220 respectively with their reflexes intact + extra power.

In short, as great today as when back then.

Putting the shoe on the other foot, how many moderns coul endure riding the rails in blistering hot and wet, freezing cold days like Dempsey or enduring the military service in ww2 like Louis and Rocky?

Ironically I agree with this post. Only correction, and I may be wrong, but I believe heavyweights wear 10oz gloves, not 12's.

[kafkod]

I saw the title first and thought "Who's the jerkoff who asked this question?" and then I saw it was made by me when I was a kid

Thanks Queen ya jerkoff.



So you've seen a ton of the old threads I made in the past. Do you agree with that version of me? I was also a Tyson fanboy back then mind you. We would have gotten along well I think.

I felt like you had raised a decent point.

At that time those were both good wins by smaller HW. Sultan-Briggs and Haye-Valuev.

I've been wondering recently if it's a size thing or if there just isn't any talented tough small HWs.

The adage is .. "a good big man always beats a good little man"

So what we're talking about is a balance of size and ability. It's really a variation on the P4P theme, but not so subjective, if the two men are actually close enough in size for the fight to be made.

[Willie Pep 229]

- -I agree a talented big man is going to beat a talented small man most of the time, say 80%.

However, we are today in the 12 rd era with 12 oz gloves with KDs being scored that was intuitive back in the day, but sometimes erroneously today as an automatic 2 pt deduction in spite of the KDed fighter dominating the rd, a 9-9 rd even score that boxing prohibits.

Turn of the millenium when we were all green on boxing Forums, Ali fans insisted he beats Louis in size and speed in spite of a nominal 1" height advantage and near zero weight advantage and Ali speed consisting of running nonengagement early rds with Joe pressuring.

In today's world , Louis, Dempsey, and Marciano woul be introduced to sophisticated weight training and not oriented toward fine carving wt down to be 225, 215, and 220 respectively with their reflexes intact + extra power.

In short, as great today as when back then.

Putting the shoe on the other foot, how many moderns coul endure riding the rails in blistering hot and wet, freezing cold days like Dempsey or enduring the military service in ww2 like Louis and Rocky?

I agree, always judge a man's accomplishment by the standards of his day . . . but Joe never saw any stress during the Second World War, fought exhibitions and was a physical trainer, while Rocky missed out on operation Market Garden (the liberation of Holland) because he was in jail for strong-arm robbery.

[billeau2]

First of all... to come in light is a training decision... Most of the great fighters in the past could easily come in heavier. Second of all the addage about a big man versus a small man is complicated. The ability to fight fifteen rounds and throw punches, stay on your toes, etc depends on being lighter for the fight.

Third, the heavyweight division is an open division...

Fourth, Size, bigness only partially depends on weight... Why was Lopez so much "bigger" than Loma if they are basically fighting at the same weight? Think about it! And before anyone talks about gaining weight before the fight, after the weigh in...that is water weight guys. Some people are bigger, stronger at a similar weight. Thats the thing... Marciano was a heavy weight for a reason. He could weigh around 190 pounds and be such. He could also put on 40 pounds and satisfy any size queens...

There is a constant misunderstanding about size and weight here.

Take Fitzimmons... He weighed 160 pounds or so, when he beat Corbet. Now... Take his upper body and compare it to Deontay Wilder's upper body... Guess who has bigger structure, bones, and musculature? The weigh difference would be in the legs. Think about it.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Lopez ring wt huge advantage over Loma.

Was U hatched only yesterday?