Rating old heavyweights?

[Anthony342]

Seems to be

Well that's what I'm gonna go with then.

[Marchegiano]

Well that's what I'm gonna go with then.

It's fair, no one posthumous can change how the world feels about Dempsey's power, toughness, constitution and such. He definitely got glowing reviews in that regard in his era. I've never even seen a "dempsey doesn't hit as hard as they say" article. I'm sure they exist, but I've never chanced across them and I've been looking at loads of call outs and such type articles. Very confrontational type stuff, people hit his resume then, but not his traits, not his power and such. They just said they could take it and so on.

Like I said, I'm sure if I looked I could find someone claiming Dempsey's traits are overrated, but, I'm also sure consensus then and now is/was he's hard hitting and tough as ****.

[louis54]

Very good point

[Anthony342]

It's fair, no one posthumous can change how the world feels about Dempsey's power, toughness, constitution and such. He definitely got glowing reviews in that regard in his era. I've never even seen a "dempsey doesn't hit as hard as they say" article. I'm sure they exist, but I've never chanced across them and I've been looking at loads of call outs and such type articles. Very confrontational type stuff, people hit his resume then, but not his traits, not his power and such. They just said they could take it and so on.

Like I said, I'm sure if I looked I could find someone claiming Dempsey's traits are overrated, but, I'm also sure consensus then and now is/was he's hard hitting and tough as ****.

Well I come here to learn about history and I've learned quite a lot here about Dempsey. From bios I've seen, he also seemed to be living the good life with his wife at the time Estelle Taylor. He also did film appearances, exhibitions and product endorsements. Seems like he held up the title for 3 years before finally getting in the ring with Tunney. I can see why the criticism. After Jack Johnson, I guess fans didn't want to see a black challenger until Joe Louis came along. If that was the case, they should've just came out and admitted that.

[JAB5239]

Well I come here to learn about history and I've learned quite a lot here about Dempsey. From bios I've seen, he also seemed to be living the good life with his wife at the time Estelle Taylor. He also did film appearances, exhibitions and product endorsements. Seems like he held up the title for 3 years before finally getting in the ring with Tunney. I can see why the criticism. After Jack Johnson, I guess fans didn't want to see a black challenger until Joe Louis came along. If that was the case, they should've just came out and admitted that.

From everything I've read, Wills was a fight that should have been made, and the money right. I guess it's what you want to believe after all these years. For me, I think Dempsey should have gotten to more fighters than the ones already beaten by guys waiting in line. But like I said, after all this time it's a matter of opinion.

[Anthony342]

From everything I've read, Wills was a fight that should have been made, and the money right. I guess it's what you want to believe after all these years. For me, I think Dempsey should have gotten to more fighters than the ones already beaten by guys waiting in line. But like I said, after all this time it's a matter of opinion.

So would people have paid to see Dempsey against a black contender though?

[JAB5239]

So would people have paid to see Dempsey against a black contender though?

Like I said, it depends on who you believe. I believe yes, by all the accounts I've read the money was there for at least the Wills fight. Unfortunately I don't have the te to dive into it as I once did. I will say I don't place all the blame on Dempsey, anymore than I can any other fighter accused of ducking someone. But as long as Wills was rated I believe the fight should have been made.

[travestyny]

So would people have paid to see Dempsey against a black contender though?

Wanted to show you the poll that was taken in 1922...and came up on this old tune about Harry Wills Unfortunately the tune is talked over a bit.


But anyway, the people wanted it.

The public wanted it. In a 1922 poll of some 500 newspapers nationwide, Harry Wills was selected as the the boxer that people most wanted to see heavyweight champ Jack Dempsey fight. He got 131,073 votes; second place was 6,000. The problem was, Dempsey had drawn the “color line” in 1919 after winning the title, citing deadly riots after the Jack Johnson – James J. Jeffries fight in 1910.

In 1925, the New York State Athletic Commission gave Dempsey an ultimatum: fight Wills, or find another state to fight in. He chose the latter. Another match fell through in 1926. When Dempsey lost to Gene Tunney that year, and Wills, then 37, lost as well, talks of the match ended, as did Wills’ shot at the title. A month later Howell, Horseley and Bradford recorded this song on a Columbia 10 inch 78.

https://soundbeat.org/episode/harry-wills-the-champion/

I will say, this quotation gets it wrong. 2nd place was Tommy Gibbons and he didn't win 6,000 votes. He was 6,000 votes behind Wills.

[QueensburyRules]

Like I said, it depends on who you believe. I believe yes, by all the accounts I've read the money was there for at least the Wills fight. Unfortunately I don't have the te to dive into it as I once did. I will say I don't place all the blame on Dempsey, anymore than I can any other fighter accused of ducking someone. But as long as Wills was rated I believe the fight should have been made.

- -No Ring fighter ratings til 1925.

Beliefs are for religious forums, not boxing.

[travestyny]

For anyone interested in how the poll played out:

March 15, 1922