Rating old heavyweights?

[Marchegiano]

Not you, but I used your post to dovetail...my beef is with Tunney!

And if he were right here in front of me? after I informed him of my beef I would look him straight in the eye, wag my finger slowly and say "Don't make me make you hurt me Gene!"

M, I want you to know that my posting behavoir with you is a reflection of the fact I feel so comfortable with you as a poster, and the tremendous respect I have for the research you do. If I ever get out of line? Well see the quote to Tunney above, and read it carefully lol.

I see, you're not far off

I had mistook you, but it wasn't me I thought you were aimed at so much as the press of the era.

You'd have to be direct with me for me to assume you mean me.

[Anthony342]

I see, you're not far off

I had mistook you, but it wasn't me I thought you were aimed at so much as the press of the era.

You'd have to be direct with me for me to assume you mean me.

So when it comes to Dempsey, the consensus on him is then that he was greatly skilled, double tough, and had a good, but not great resume?

[Dr. Z]

If any of those animals was triggered to "fight" they would not retreat, that is called a hint. Sure you take a docile animal and work within behavior trained...

Do you really think whipping a tiger like a trainer does would stop a Tiger intent on harming?

This is just plain silly... There is no way Canera could beat up an ape that was intent, behavoirially triggered to "fight" much less an apex preditor. An intelligent man like Tunney should know this.

here is an analogy: In India they train an elephant from infancy to respect a leash of string... Now sure, as a pup the elephant cannot resist the string... Well, the elephant learns to think the string will restrain and it works on adults... Now my friend let me ask you something... Do you think for a NY minute, if that adult elephant resisted that string, it would not be succesful?

If you do think twice... and if you think any wild animal in actual fight mode would recoil at a body shot? think 20 times...

Carnera fought a Bear, not an Ape. I have seen the clips. These side bits were for show, and billings. Of course they were real fights, rather the animal was muzzled and its claws covered.

There are also old boxing clips of a man vs. a kangaroo.

Yes, most animals if hit hard will retreat. You have to find someone crazy enough to do it, but that is the fact

Here is one most have not seen. The fight with the bear had much better action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z678MMrRsl8

[Dr. Z]

So when it comes to Dempsey, the consensus on him is then that he was greatly skilled, double tough, and had a good, but not great resume?

Greatly skilled? Meehan out boxed him. Tunney made him really look bad. And he was hit plenty on film by the likes of Firpo who wasn't skilled and Carpentier who was skilled until he got hurt after round one. Also had to come back to beat Bill Brennan on film

Dempsey is better know for speed and two fisted power. That and his savage attack which sometimes could be dirty ( Low blows and kidney shots ). His skills were merely good. Defense for sure was not his thing.

As for tough, yeah to a degree. There's a 1 round KO loss by Fireman Flynn of all people on his resume.

[QueensburyRules]

Greatly skilled? Meehan out boxed him. Tunney made him really look bad. And he was hit plenty on film by the likes of Firpo who wasn't skilled and Carpentier who was skilled until he got hurt after round one. Also had to come back to beat Bill Brennan on film

Dempsey is better know for speed and two fisted power. That and his savage attack which sometimes could be dirty ( Low blows and kidney shots ). His skills were merely good. Defense for sure was not his thing.

As for tough, yeah to a degree. There's a 1 round KO loss by Fireman Flynn of all people on his resume.

- -The Meehan bouts were in the Shipyard circa WW1 where Willie worked and were 4 rd fund raisers. He beat Langford and other top contenders in this format.

Ali knocked out by
Kent Green in that era format and so on.

[billeau2]

Carnera fought a Bear, not an Ape. I have seen the clips. These side bits were for show, and billings. Of course they were real fights, rather the animal was muzzled and its claws covered.

There are also old boxing clips of a man vs. a kangaroo.

Yes, most animals if hit hard will retreat. You have to find someone crazy enough to do it, but that is the fact

Here is one most have not seen. The fight with the bear had much better action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z678MMrRsl8

Agreed. I was using the chimp as an example of an animal that was smaller and might look easy to overpower.

My point is simply that from the animal's point of view, theyare engaging in learned behavior that is far off from fighting when in these situations.

[Dr. Z]

- -The Meehan bouts were in the Shipyard circa WW1 where Willie worked and were 4 rd fund raisers. He beat Langford and other top contenders in this format.

Ali knocked out by
Kent Green in that era format and so on.

Right, but 4 rounds or not, Meehan movement skills bothered Dempsey.

[GhostofDempsey]

So when it comes to Dempsey, the consensus on him is then that he was greatly skilled, double tough, and had a good, but not great resume?

That's a fair assessment. The thing about Dempsey, if he gets the long count win over Tunney, his resume goes from good to great in just one fight. He was also one of the most important fighters in boxing history.

[QueensburyRules]

Right, but 4 rounds or not, Meehan movement skills bothered Dempsey.

- -If not for Dundee illegal tactics, L'il Henry Cooper who had to wear weights to break the 175lb sanctioning minimum would've KOed young Clay.

Why you keep embarassing Ali?

[Marchegiano]

So when it comes to Dempsey, the consensus on him is then that he was greatly skilled, double tough, and had a good, but not great resume?

Seems to be