Tommy Burns: Where does he rate among HW Greats

[Dr. Z]

It's often said that some Black heavyweights didn't get a crack at the title back in the day because of "the times."


I'm happy Tommy Burns found himself to be fighting in a time when it was so acceptable to give a Black heavyweight a crack at the title.

Burns was a business man.

The color line is a tad complex. It depends on the fighter. For example the middle weight title was a big deal back then, and crossed the color line in 1899. I do believe if Peter Jackson got a shot vs a declining Sullivan, he beats him. Peter was a well liked man by the press. Things could have been very different.

Then we have say Greb and Leonard in the 1920's who didn't care about the color line at all.

[travestyny]

Burns was a business man.

The color line is a tad complex. It depends on the fighter. For example the middle weight title was a big deal back then, and crossed the color line in 1899. I do believe if Peter Jackson got a shot vs a declining Sullivan, he beats him. Peter was a well liked man by the press. Things could have been very different.

Then we have say Greb and Leonard in the 1920's who didn't care about the color line at all.

Well yea, I'm sure it was the money that made Burns take the fight. But the money didn't always convince others to take the fight, so I think he deserves some credit.

You bring up a good point. In my research, I learned that when the JJohnson fight was offered to Langford in 1909, it wasn't a given that Langford would take it. One newspaper reported that he would turn it down if he got a shot at Ketchel for the Middleweight championship. I found that strange since I had assumed he would want the Heavyweight Championship more than the Middle title.

[Willie Pep 229]

Well yea, I'm sure it was the money that made Burns take the fight. But the money didn't always convince others to take the fight, so I think he deserves some credit.

You bring up a good point. In my research, I learned that when the JJohnson fight was offered to Langford in 1909, it wasn't a given that Langford would take it. One newspaper reported that he would turn it down if he got a shot at Ketchel for the Middleweight championship. I found that strange since I had assumed he would want the Heavyweight Championship more than the Middle title.

Or maybe Sam saw more money in a white fighter.

[QueensburyRules]

Or maybe Sam saw more money in a white fighter.

- -Ouch!

Weensie can't win...

[travestyny]

Or maybe Sam saw more money in a white fighter.

That's certainly a possibility!

[travestyny]

- -Ouch!

Weensie can't win...

There was no point of contention there.

Plus, you big dummy, if what he says is correct, then it only backs up Houdini's contention that two blacks fighting for the title wouldn't draw. You know...the argument that you've been fighting against when it comes to Jack Johnson.

You're an absolute moron

[QueensburyRules]

There was no point of contention there.

Plus, you big dummy, if what he says is correct, then it only backs up Houdini's contention that two blacks fighting for the title wouldn't draw. You know...the argument that you've been fighting against when it comes to Jack Johnson.

You're an absolute moron

- -Jeannette said he took up boxing because of the $.

Both he, Sam, and McVey making expensive ocean liner trips overseas that most Americans could not afford to do.

That DQs U Ignorance anytime U attempt to play the IQ card.

[travestyny]

- -Jeannette said he took up boxing because of the $.

Both he, Sam, and McVey making expensive ocean liner trips overseas that most Americans could not afford to do.

That DQs U Ignorance anytime U attempt to play the IQ card.

And what does that have to do with the topic, dumbo?


Oh, I get it. They were already wealthy and thus the purse was irrelevant...?


You shouldn't even be allowed to post here anymore. Dummy.

[The Old LefHook]

I'd like to know if Burns could even whip Dwight Braxton, who was about the same height.

[QueensburyRules]

And what does that have to do with the topic, dumbo?


Oh, I get it. They were already wealthy and thus the purse was irrelevant...?


You shouldn't even be allowed to post here anymore. Dummy.

- -Tommy and Sam both Canadian contemperaries. Tommy wouldn't fight Sam, so he went with the easy $ JJ defense.

Yeah, enjoyed U Nancy glee club conspiring to get me banned.