Tommy Burns: Where does he rate among HW Greats

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  • Yogi
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    #11
    Originally posted by SABBATH
    Tommy still shares the record with Larry Holmes for consecutive KO's by a heavyweight champion with eight in a row.

    I would have liked to have seen Burns fight Stanley Ketchell or Sam Langford as a better indication of his abilities. He was simply overmatched by Jack Johnson who was a true heavyweight while Burns was really a middleweight/light-heavyweight.
    A light heavyweight fight between Langford & Burns would have been interesting, and if it needed a title or two on the line, then what the hell...put Langford's Federation Francaise de Boxe or his National Sporting Club versions of the "world" light heavyweight title up for grabs (Langford also held the NSC "world" heavyweight title) in the fight.

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    • SABBATH
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      #12
      Originally posted by Yogi
      A light heavyweight fight between Langford & Burns would have been interesting, and if it needed a title or two on the line, then what the hell...put Langford's Federation Francaise de Boxe or his National Sporting Club versions of the "world" light heavyweight title up for grabs (Langford also held the NSC "world" heavyweight title) in the fight.
      Not to mention a battle of two Canadians.

      Keeping with a patriotic theme have you seen Larry Gaines vs Primo Carnera? It's the first footage I've seen of Gaines, and the quality is excellent for the era. Not a bad resume with a KO win over Max Schmeling, a points win over Primo Carnera and a DQ win over George Godfrey.

      Last edited by SABBATH; 02-14-2007, 07:43 PM.

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      • Emon723
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        #13
        Originally posted by butterfly1964
        Also Ali, and Lewis defended it more as well.
        Ali defend it 9 times in his first reign and 10 times from 74'-78', also Lewis in his 2nd.reign and Tyson defend their HW titles 9 times too.

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        • Yogi
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          #14
          Originally posted by SABBATH
          Not to mention a battle of two Canadians.

          Keeping with a patriotic theme have you seen Larry Gaines vs Primo Carnera? It's the first footage I've seen of Gaines, and the quality is excellent for the era. Not a bad resume with a KO win over Max Schmeling, a points win over Primo Carnera and a DQ win over George Godfrey.

          http://youtube.com/watch?v=hXzYH2ODO50
          Yep, I saw that footage of Gains just the other day, Sabbath, and you're right, the quality of the video is pretty damn good for being from that time.

          And Gains...he looks pretty good in it, as well, although it'd be a little unfair to judge his skillset & abilities much beyond that based on that limited viewing of him. I still view him as one of the better second tier heavyweights of his era (behind only Schmeling, Sharkey, Godfrey, Baer, and maybe one or two others), as well as maybe one of the five, or at the very, very least (and I'm being quite conservative with this), ten best heavyweights that this country has given birth to throughout boxing's history...

          A solid & very respectful career he had going for him, no doubt, and it's kind of a shame that, besides the Schmeling KO, Gains is best known as the black heavyweight who gave Dempsey a two round tattoo'ing in one (and only between the two?) sparring session for the Tunney rematch.

          An interesting trivial sidenote about that Gains/Carnera fight is that with 71,000 people viewing it live, it may still to this day be the highest attended fight ever held on British soils...At least it held that distinction at the time it was held anyways and the "top of me head" can't recall any other ones offhand since then.

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          • SABBATH
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            #15
            Originally posted by Yogi
            And Gains...he looks pretty good in it, as well, although it'd be a little unfair to judge his skillset & abilities much beyond that based on that limited viewing of him. I still view him as one of the better second tier heavyweights of his era (behind only Schmeling, Sharkey, Godfrey, Baer, and maybe one or two others), as well as maybe one of the five, or at the very, very least (and I'm being quite conservative with this), ten best heavyweights that this country has given birth to throughout boxing's history
            Tommy Burns, Larry Gains, Sam Langford, Earl Walls, Bob Cleroux, James J. Parker, George Chuvalo, Kirk Johnson...not a whole hell of alot off the top of my head to choose from.

            Not quite sure where Willie Dewitt or Dave Semenko rank.
            Last edited by SABBATH; 02-15-2007, 09:01 AM.

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            • Yogi
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              #16
              Originally posted by SABBATH
              Tommy Burns, Larry Gains, Sam Langford, Earl Walls, Bob Cleroux, James J. Parker, George Chuvalo, Kirk Johnson...not a whole hell of alot off the top of my head to choose from.

              Not quite sure where Willie Dewitt or Dave Semenko rank.
              Yep, that's just about what this country's produced for heavyweights and if you add in the names of Jack Renault & Old Chocolate Godfrey then you'd have the top ten that I came up with about a year ago on a different site (Jack Munro, whose one of the select few Canadians who got a shot at the heavyweight title, got bumped for Kirk Johnson, as I remember).

              And speaking of DeWitt, it may be a day late, but what the heck...Happy St. Valentine's Day Massacre;

              http://www.**********.com/?d=XPJNNYDF

              Ouch!

              Can you believe that it's been 20 years already?

              P.S. You bringing up Sammy Semenko brings up a memory from his bio in regards to a photo of him squaring off menacingly with Ali, and if I'm not mistaken, I believe the bio also mentioned something about a possible sparring match between the two, whether that ever came off or not.

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              • SABBATH
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                #17
                Originally posted by Yogi
                And speaking of DeWitt, it may be a day late, but what the heck...Happy St. Valentine's Day Massacre;

                http://www.**********.com/?d=XPJNNYDF

                Ouch!

                Can you believe that it's been 20 years already?

                P.S. You bringing up Sammy Semenko brings up a memory from his bio in regards to a photo of him squaring off menacingly with Ali, and if I'm not mistaken, I believe the bio also mentioned something about a possible sparring match between the two, whether that ever came off or not.
                Dave Semenko and Ali fought an exhibition for charity in 1983. I wanted to post a picture of the fight but it is no longer available on the site I went to. Semenko speaks in detail about the bout in his autobiography.

                I'll assume the upload is Cooper-Dewitt and yeah Ouch is about right. I've got that one on tape. Nice job on Willie's nose and had me believing for a very short while that Cooper might cause a ripple if not a splash in the heavyweight division.

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                • Yogi
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                  #18
                  Originally posted by SABBATH
                  I'll assume the upload is Cooper-Dewitt and yeah Ouch is about right. I've got that one on tape. Nice job on Willie's nose and had me believing for a very short while that Cooper might cause a ripple if not a splash in the heavyweight division.
                  As yet another Canadian who was quite high on DeWitt's prospects, I think that fight hurt me just as much as it did DeWitt, because at the time I envisioned DeWitt at least grabbing an alpha title, and truthfully I thought we'd eventually see him face Tyson in one of the potential bigger money fights from the division at that time...

                  Wishful thinking, I know, and who would've thunk DeWitt incapable of blocking a simple right hand.

                  Like you, I also thought Cooper would have done much more than he did at heavyweight (some of that had to do with Cooper being a fresh face in the division and an exciting one at that), and based on my memory of what the boxing mags were saying after that DeWitt fight (one article stands out, where the writers looked at five potential future challengers to Tyson, with Cooper being one of them) you & I wouldn't have been the only ones who had expected more from Cooper...Cooper very likely gets a title shot at Tyson late in 1987 if Carl Williams didn't upset the odds and pull off the upset against Cooper.

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                  • The Surgeon
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                    #19
                    Never mind Louis, Tyson, Foreman and Lewis - Burns couldnt live with Bruno, Tubbs, Mercer and Morrison! Too old fashioned and small!

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                    • ben41193
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                      #20
                      He is near the bottom of the list.

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