Tommy Burns: Where does he rate among HW Greats

[Zaroku]

He was great in his era!i wonder how he would have fared against Marciano?

[QueensburyRules]

- -I like Tommy. He took it to JJ but got outmuscled and then out hustled when JJ corner crawled under the ring to start screaming to stop the fight.

Net result is a stain on JJ and the boxing media unable or unwilling to print what really happened.

[Marchegiano]

I feel like he's certainly underrated now

For the record, Marvin Hart was a good HW too.

[Anthony342]

Well that's a blast from the past. Mr. Fuji!!!

Didn't even realize I posted that here. Yeah ALS diagnosis is rough, dude. Yukon John aka The Berzerker was one of my favorites back in the day.

[travestyny]

Didn't even realize I posted that here. Yeah ALS diagnosis is rough, dude. Yukon John aka The Berzerker was one of my favorites back in the day.

haha. Yea, I realized that it was added by mistake, but had to give a shout out to Fuji! I had nearly forgotten about The Berzerker!

[Dr. Z]

Well yea, I'm sure it was the money that made Burns take the fight. But the money didn't always convince others to take the fight, so I think he deserves some credit.

You bring up a good point. In my research, I learned that when the JJohnson fight was offered to Langford in 1909, it wasn't a given that Langford would take it. One newspaper reported that he would turn it down if he got a shot at Ketchel for the Middleweight championship. I found that strange since I had assumed he would want the Heavyweight Championship more than the Middle title.

Prize fighters value one thing above all others. The money. Even for Jeffries who once took a fight with Hank Griffin ( Who was African American ) as champion in 1901, breaking the color line though few pay attention to him doing it as it was only four rounds. Jeffries floored Griffin several times, who was fresh off a win over Jack Johnson a few times. An easy day's work.

Langford would take any lineal title shot with money in it, either from Johnson or Ketchel. Since Johnson didn't fight him in 1909, he agreed to fight Ketchel instead in 1910. It was a 6 round affair, some view that neither man was going all out. Langford was the better according to the press. The hope was that a 6 round match would give both a much bigger purse for a 20-25 round championship fight in the summer of the same year. Ketchel died before it could be made.

I must say in the two films fights I have seen, Ketchel does not look good. Sure he can hit but his skills, and defense were very suspect on film

[QueensburyRules]

Prize fighters value one thing above all others. The money. Even for Jeffries who once took a fight with Hank Griffin ( Who was African American ) as champion in 1901, breaking the color line though few pay attention to him doing it as it was only four rounds. Jeffries floored Griffin several times, who was fresh off a win over Jack Johnson a few times. An easy day's work.

Langford would take any lineal title shot with money in it, either from Johnson or Ketchel. Since Johnson didn't fight him in 1909, he agreed to fight Ketchel instead in 1910. It was a 6 round affair, some view that neither man was going all out. Langford was the better according to the press. The hope was that a 6 round match would give both a much bigger purse for a 20-25 round championship fight in the summer of the same year. Ketchel died before it could be made.

I must say in the two films fights I have seen, Ketchel does not look good. Sure he can hit but his skills, and defense were very suspect on film

- -What stinkin' defense?

[HOUDINI563]

Money was good certainly but several points need to be understood:

Burns was a Canadian. He had none of the American prejudices against black people and more importantly did not have an understanding as to the American cultural tradition of the color line in the heavyweight division. He was quoted as not understanding why any qualified fighter could not be given the opportunity.

Burns was told in no uncertain terms not to fight Johnson (or any black fighter) by the various past champions as well as the powers that controlled boxing.

As the case with Wills years later there was a huge undercurrent within the sport to prevent a mixed race heavyweight bout. However other countries did not hold this “ban”. It’s no wonder that the Burns Johnson bout occurred in Australia. It never would have taken place in the US.

[QueensburyRules]

Money was good certainly but several points need to be understood:

Burns was a Canadian. He had none of the American prejudices against black people and more importantly did not have an understanding as to the American cultural tradition of the color line in the heavyweight division. He was quoted as not understanding why any qualified fighter could not be given the opportunity.

Burns was told in no uncertain terms not to fight Johnson (or any black fighter) by the various past champions as well as the powers that controlled boxing.

As the case with Wills years later there was a huge undercurrent within the sport to prevent a mixed race heavyweight bout. However other countries did not hold this “ban”. It’s no wonder that the Burns Johnson bout occurred in Australia. It never would have taken place in the US.

- -Attempts by Sam and Joe to fight JJ in Paris were rebuffed.

JJ jealously protective of his status.

[Dr. Z]

I don't think Burns would make a top 30 all time list today, nor do I think he'd be ranked at heavyweight inside the top 15.