Tommy Burns: Where does he rate among HW Greats

[HOUDINI563]

The only two filmed bouts of Ketchel one is a fake bout with the heavyweight champion of the world. Hard to show ones talents against such overwhelming odds.

The other filmed bout was discussed down through the decades as one of his worst performances. So again a worst case scenario.

Cant judge Ketchel based upon what we have on film.

[GhostofDempsey]

Prize fighters value one thing above all others. The money. Even for Jeffries who once took a fight with Hank Griffin ( Who was African American ) as champion in 1901, breaking the color line though few pay attention to him doing it as it was only four rounds. Jeffries floored Griffin several times, who was fresh off a win over Jack Johnson a few times. An easy day's work.

Langford would take any lineal title shot with money in it, either from Johnson or Ketchel. Since Johnson didn't fight him in 1909, he agreed to fight Ketchel instead in 1910. It was a 6 round affair, some view that neither man was going all out. Langford was the better according to the press. The hope was that a 6 round match would give both a much bigger purse for a 20-25 round championship fight in the summer of the same year. Ketchel died before it could be made.

I must say in the two films fights I have seen, Ketchel does not look good. Sure he can hit but his skills, and defense were very suspect on film

Ketchel was another former "great" whose legend was bigger than the man himself. His record was padded against a lot of novice level fighters and journeyman. His wins over O'Brien were towards the end of his career, past his prime...and despite that, O'Brien was still able to muster a draw against Johnson in between the Ketchel fights.

[Dr. Z]

Ketchel was another former "great" whose legend was bigger than the man himself. His record was padded against a lot of novice level fighters and journeyman. His wins over O'Brien were towards the end of his career, past his prime...and despite that, O'Brien was still able to muster a draw against Johnson in between the Ketchel fights.

I agree. O'Brien might have been the better according to primary sources as he moved quickly and scored often with his jab. So much for this vaunted defense of Johnson's.

Ketchel look like a tough man fighter, yet he floored Johnson too.

Here we have two middleweight, and look what they did.

[Dr. Z]

The only two filmed bouts of Ketchel one is a fake bout with the heavyweight champion of the world. Hard to show ones talents against such overwhelming odds.

The other filmed bout was discussed down through the decades as one of his worst performances. So again a worst case scenario.

Cant judge Ketchel based upon what we have on film.

BS! It was a legit fight. The story of the fix came after Ketchel's death, not before. Johnson won and used similar tactics vs tiny Tommy Burns. To quote the press on hand Johnson was dazed from the blow Ketchel floored him with.

There is another filmed fight on Ketchel vs. Papke and he looks poor here.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Seen more than 2 Ketchel fights, but yeah, not that many from that era, period.

[travestyny]

BS! It was a legit fight. The story of the fix came after Ketchel's death, not before.

Why do you clowns keep saying this??? Ketchel died within a year of that fight

[Dr. Z]

Why do you clowns keep saying this??? Ketchel died within a year of that fight

DUH, Are you that dense?

The story of the fix came after Ketchel died. Dead people do not talk, Ketchel could not defend it. Meanwhile Johnson was dropped and dazed by a crude middleweight. That clearly bothers you.

Johnson also called the Willard fight fixed, which is a lie. You don't believe that one too, do you?

[travestyny]

DUH, Are you that dense?

The story of the fix came after Ketchel died. Dead people do not talk, Ketchel could not defend it. Meanwhile Johnson was dropped and dazed by a crude middleweight. That clearly bothers you.

Johnson also called the Willard fight fixed, which is a lie. You don't believe that one too, do you?

So you wanted Johnson to admit that he staged the knock down when? Immediately?


You're not too bright, are you?

[QueensburyRules]

So you wanted Johnson to admit that he staged the knock down when? Immediately?

You're not too bright, are you?

- -JJ KOed by lesser fighters than Ketchel who knocked him down.

1st place dimwittery is your legacy to the forum.