I don't understand this crap. There are no bums in boxing, there are quite obvious levels which fighters reach, maintain, surpass or decline into however. A real boxing fan would be able to understand this difference.
Boxers delaying fights as part of a business strategy isn't anything new, it happened in Sugar Ray Leonard's day and it happened in Ali's day. Tyson - Holyfield didn't happen in the early nineties because the money wasn't right. Of course the difference is, those fighters were the absolute biggest thing in boxing at the time.
I don't necessarily have a problem so long as the big fights happen whilst they are relevant. What I do have a problem with is boxers like Amir Khan, Andre Berto and many more holding out for paydays when they've done very little to earn them.
Have these fighters and the others like them done anything extraordinary to stand them apart from the many other champions in the sport? I don't think so. They may well be capable of becoming the best, but neither has had any kind of longevity in order consistently face elite competition to prove they are the best.
Allowing young fighters to believe they are 'owed' something extra only sets them up for a fall later. Amir Khan had a warning against Prescott, it seemed to straighten him out for a while, though lately he doesn't seem to have remembered that lesson.
Shane has better power, a better body attack, and a better chin.
PBF has better slightly better handspeed, much better footork, better defense, and is a better counterpuncher.
Both guys have 12 round stamina. It's a 60-40 fight favoring PBF imo. If Shane wins, he does it by KO in the late rounds. If PBF wins, it's by decision. He won't hurt or drop Shane.
This is all you need to know about how tonight will turn out. Footwork is the absolute key in this fight. Floyd will use his superior mobility to box Shane to a unanimous decision. I don't think it will be a boring fight or uncompetitive though, 60-40 is a pretty accurate description.
Theres a reason why Flyod is called feather fisted.
Feather fisted means punches are like charmin toilet papers.. soft and fluffy, not design to hurt anyone. If you watch all of Flyods fight you see all his opponent smilling, like they just came from a good work out.'
Dream on flomos.
Actually you'll find a lot of Floyd's opponents underestimated how hard he could hit, going into their respective fight's with him.
He can certainly hit hard enough to hurt his opponent he just doesn't have the sort of explosive power to stop someone dead, at least a 147lbs+ anyways.
I don't remember Tito being heavily favoured.
I guess maybe to my he was. I remember thinking the Tito victory was all but signed and sealed. He was on the top or close to being top of the world at the time. A lot of people thought Hopkins was over the hill and ready to be fed to the lions, I guess people have been thinking that for a while about him.
The fighters' technique also plays a part in it, if they're up on their toes a lot they wont generate much power. Sitting down on punches and generating twist obviously gives more power.
As some fighters move up the scale they may start sitting down on the punches more.
Part of it may be caused by fatigue, as already mentioned, it takes more energy to shift more weight, hence bouncing around and fleet footedness is reduced.
There are of course other reasons and it can be extremely fighter specific, some just react differently to the weight or adopt different styles to suit.
Taking a simple sentence and writing a story with rumors.
Plus writing false stories, which happpens ALOT
And worst of all repeating the same articles day after day even though nothing new has happened
To be fair though, the above happens in all facets of journalism. A large percentage of that is caused by the environment news stories are created in. Stories are sold just like any other commodity that, unfortunately, leads to sensationalism in some (most) instances.
I'm not so bothered about reading the same story a few times, as long as it is written by different people each time. There isn't anything wrong with a different prerogative. What I don't like is a single journalist recycling a story again and again over time, it's lazy and doesn't do anyone any good.
Oli
@ Reed...- I don't think anyone here is trying to put down your personal opinion, Williams, Cotto et al have gone on to prove themselves as better fighters than Baldomir, so your argument certainly has merit.
As with most things in life, this has boiled down to a timing issue. It just so happened the Baldomir beat Zab to become lineal champ just as Cotto, Williams and Marg' were really heating up.
If those three's careers were 12-18 months further down the line we'd likely have a very different boxing landscape today, at least in terms of resume at 147.
Out of interest, as I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but who do think is missing from the list, or that could be here shortly (Manny and Floyd aside, as that is boring now)? Who do people think acts the most like a champion with out having a belt strapped round their waste?
I like how the author of this article makes reference to Haye's brain cell count, entirely missing the fact that his copy is littered with spelling and gramatical errors.
I'd question anyone that calls a World Champion a "pretender", even if people question his attitude to taking the toughest contests available, he still took the belt from Valuev, so an argument can't even be made on the grounds that he won a vacant title!
I must admit the pretender jibe was silly but the "paper-mache" jaw really had me rolling my eyes. All journalists are biased to some degree, that is just human nature, but it is hard to take this guy seriously with those two pearlers as part of his opening gambit.
What happen now if Cliff Rold' choice of #1P4P and Welterweight Champ -Floyd Mayweather Jr. Doesn't want to face "Pacman", the current Yahoo #1P4P and BWAA' Fighter of the Decade, 2009 Fighter of the Year.
Are you going to insist that its still "Pretty Boy" the undisputed Welterweight Champ and Boxingscene' #1 P4P?
Floyd Mayweather isn't the undisputed champ, he is the lineal champ...there is a world of difference between the two.
Undisputed is about collecting baubles, lineal is about earning your right to be called the best, by beating the best available. In this case, Shane Mosley.
care to comment on what's wrong with this article?
Well, I'm sure what most people would comment on is the inherent bias in this piece. Good journalism is unbiased, or at least as unbiased as possible, otherwise it is simply propaganda.
This is what the article is, a propaganda piece for Pacquiao, it's about generating attention and pre-fight hype. Whether it works as a propaganda piece depends on how many people buy into it; that I don't know.
If you were to view it as a piece of journalism - which you can't - I don't think Ali works as a comparison for Pacquiao, I get what he is trying to do in terms of sparring partners etc but it just doesn't work, it's forced.
I understand the timing issue, and regardless of it, Williams, Cotto, and Margarito would still have beaten the hell out of Baldomir and Judah... either way you mix it up.
And I certainly won't disagree with you. Lineal titles aren't without their problems, as you highlighted, there were better fighters in the division, but because they weren't quite on the boil (though I agree Marg' was established at the time) Baldomir got the shot.
I do think however that Lineal titles hold more merit than belts, as the sanctioning bodies just aren't able to get their acts together. Obviously there are always going to be people that slip through the net. Absolutely no-one would argue that RJJ wasn't the best Lightheavy during his title reign, that would be stupid. If I remember correctly Dariusz Mic' was lineal champ at the time? Though I can't remember for certain off the top of my head. It is just a shame that fight didn't come off for Roy.
Well said Smith...well said!!!!
Thanks. I don't post on here very often but pound for pound lists always get people talking, I guess that's the point.
For what it is worth I think Cliff's list is pretty damned good.
I'd probably push Hopkins down slightly, without wishing to take anything away from what he achieved against Pascal. I think that clash of styles is always going to be favourable for Bernard.
I would probably sneak Donaire into the list somewhere; in terms of potential ability he is already there, and has been there for a long time but he needs fights like Montiel to prove he belongs. Donaire's greatest attribute in that fight will be his metabolism, he'll be too big for Montiel when they get into the ring and I predict Donaire will take him to pieces. Looking forward to February!
Whether Montiel deserves to be higher at the moment is up for debate and depends on how you define P4P, is it a representation of what a boxer has accomplished? If it is, then sure, Montiel should be higher. If your pound for pound list is based on who would beat who if everyone were the same size - hence 'pound for pound' - then I'd rate Donaire higher.
Pound for pound lists tend to focus on what HAS been accomplished rather than what could potentially be accomplished and that is fine, it still allows for plenty of subjectivity and opinion, which is the great thing about these lists.
One final thing - Wladimir Klitschko is a victim of circumstance in so much as he has done the best he possibly could with what he has to choose from. If the Heavyweight division was as stacked out as Light Welterweight or Bantamweight and Wlad had put in similar performances he would probably be going down as an all time great Heavyweight. As it is, his defining fight will probably be Haye. It's not like he can look to the Cruiserweights either, even if that division was red-hot, his sheer physicality would render most fights meaningless. It is a shame that we won't know how great he could be.
Khan probably would make Ortiz say "No Mas" again. Atleast when Khan lost, he lost trying to win. His chin failed him, not his heart. Khan's no quitter, he can't help that he wasn't born with the best chin. Ortiz, he was in a close fight against Maidana that could have gone either way still and he decided to quit when the going got tough.
Ortiz didn't exactly quit though did he? The fight was stopped due to cuts he had sustained in the fight. If that is your arguement then Vitali Klitschko "quit" against Lennox Lewis...
His comments after the fight suggested that he felt he deserved to take an easier path than his handlers, managers, promotional company had decided for him. I don't agree with that in any way, shape or form. Though he did not, at any point, quit. Having a doctor or ref stop a fight on cuts in no way implies that a fighter has quit. It can't be that hardly to understand, surely?
The fact that he approached the doctor of his own volition is just good sense, he is a young fighter with his whole career in front of him and the doctor believed the cut was bad enough to justify stopping the fight. So Ortiz was justified in seeking a medical opinion on an injury that, if unchecked, could have repercussions for the rest of his life, let alone boxing career.
So when Floyd beat Baldomir, he beat the best available.
No, he beat the man, who beat the man. At the time, as I'm sure you'll remember, Baldomir upset Zab Judah to take the lineal title fair and square. It isn't a perfect system - which would of course seen Floyd face off against Zab before the Baldomir loss. But it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative ie sanctioning bodies.
I do agree with Cliff regarding Mayweather and Pacquiao and I cringe when I come on here as almost without fail every thread decends into *****ing, either about Manny or Floyd when they have no place in the discussion. This article was about boxers who behave like or rightfully derserve to be called champions. It is doing those 10 men a great disservice to talk about two other guys who on this occasion don't deserve to be included.
My only gripe with the article was the comment regarding Edwin Valero, what happened in his personal life was a tragedy for all involved and no doubt could have been avoided. But in this context, I'm only interested in what he achieved in the ring and during his brief time as a lightweight champion. I'd prefer not to see that side of his reputation tarnished. Rightly or wrongly, that is my opinion, though many will of course disagree.
Oli
Well, if the move to the US has been made to benefit his career, then I wish him all the best. There would be many positives in a move to the US, he'll be nearer Freddie Roach for a start and probably most important he doesn't have anywhere near the kind of fame that he has over here.
He has fans and detractors alike in the UK, perhaps he is craving a more neutral atmosphere. I do agree with Jake though, whilst day to day he may find things easier going, the build up to fights etc will likely be harder going on him.
I would only be disappointed if this move was made solely for tax purposes. The only civic duty people have these days is paying taxes to their home country (unless they are in the armed forces). It would be a bitter pill for people to swallow, to see him carry the Union Jack into the ring, whilst ducking his social responsibility to the country which raised him and nurtured his talent.
That said, whilst he moves into the 50% tax bracket over here, what would be the equivalent tax in the US? Is it really that much of a difference?
Oli
All I want as a boxing fan is 1 world champion per weight class. Is that too much to ask?
You already do dude, just look for the lineal champions in each division. The lineal champ, is THE man in the division. It isn't a bout belts and politics, it's only about the best fighting the best.
If a division doesn't have a lineal champion, then for what ever reason the best fighters aren't fighters each other.
The following divisions don't have lineal champions, so no one fighter should be able to say that they are outright the best in the division:
Cruiserweight
Super middleweight
Junior middleweight
Junior welterweight
Junior Lightweight
Featherweight
Junior Featherweight
Bantamweight
Junior Bantamweight
It isn't a coincidence that in each of these divisions there is more than one fighter claiming they are the best in the division.
Welterweight and Heavyweight are the only divisions whereby an arguement could be made that the lineal champion are at least equals with the number one challenger. We all know Wlad and Vit won't fight (justifiably), and we all know Floyd and Manny should (a disgrace if they don't).
So I guess my point is, a lineal champion (who earns the right to be called by that name) will give a far clearer understanding of a singular "Champion" than a world champion, who gives up fees in order to be ranked, fight for and "own" a belt.
It isn't perfect, but it is a damn sight better than the alphabet soup nonsense.
Floyd Mayweather isn't the undisputed champ, he is the lineal champ...there is a world of difference between the two.
Undisputed is about collecting baubles, lineal is about earning your right to be called the best, by beating the best available. In this case, Shane Mosley.
And just to reiterate, regardless of whether Mayweather faces Pacquiao or not, he will still remain the lineal champion. That can only change if he gives up his claim or is beaten in the ring.
That is the beauty of the lineal title, there isn't any political BS to wade through, with regard to the meaningless sanctioning bodies, it is simply about the best fighting the best to EARN their place at the top.
Pacquiao could have had a claim at the lineal champ, if he had fought Cotto at 147lbs, regardless of whether Miguel accepted the two pound catchweight or not. They fought for a Welterweight title, but they did not fight at Welterweight.
Yes. Not a bad list but this sport is objective at one moment and then subjective the next. Drop Floyd anywhere below 5 and I could sign off on it.
Sorry, but I am within that margin that believes Mayweather is an HBO enigma, bought, sold and promoted for. He has never been in a firefight and his oppostion has been elegantly crafted. His De La Hoya split verdict victory was his best effort.
The question I ask most rergarding him is where does one place him in fistic history should he never throw hands again?
How quickly the tables turns. He will need Manny for any form of redemption and Pacman could retire tomorrow and still be viewed as the best of the last 15 years.
The odds are good that Floyd's head will require a very lengthy period of recovery once he can admit his personal demons.
He does not enjoy the game any longer which makes him unapproachable and very beatable. Should he do time, I do not think we will see him in action again for quite awhile.
He and Iron Mike need to have a long talk.
There is objectivity and there is subjectivity; and then there is a tangible recognition that Mayweather's skill set far exceeds those in the list below him. That isn't subjective, it is evident everytime he steps in the ring. Mayweather hasn't been in a fire fight because his style negates the need to get sucked into the kind of fights that shorten careers. It's a totally moot point. Like saying Calderon didn't deserve his place in P4P lists last year because he didn't knock enough people out.
Floyd's rating isn't something that is negotiable, unless you have some kind of agenda or you don't understand the game. It is right there in black and White, on the compubox analysis, the judges score cards and ultimately, his unblemished ledger.
It is what it is and for Floyd to be taken out of his comfort zone enough for his innate ability to be questioned, he would need to fight a hell of a lot higher that 147lbs. But then why would he? He is a natural Welterweight and there are plenty of paydays to be had, as long as he can get his act together.