javelin_fangs

You can't judge a fighter based on one performance. Everyone boxing vet knows this. If a dude is shot...he's shot. You don't get it back. That said, I might be wrong. I do think a lot of you are downplaying the trainer thing more than you should. A good trainer is very important. It doesn't win a fight in and of itself, but hey a disparity this big is so rare in such a big fight.

Fixed it for you Ts :afro: Lol...ok dude. Whatever you say. Like I've said a number of times. I'm rooting for Cotto. I don't like Pacquiao much these days. But Cinder Block Boy seems to have ruined Cotto. That's just what I see.

Bump... Anyone getting the PPV and willing to stream it?

Honestly who has ever looked good against Clottey but yeah I don't think he's the same since the Margarito fight. I still say Cotto wins this one though I know it's for a slightly different reason that what you're talking about, but Shamone Alvarez actually looked pretty good against Clottey. That said, I just don't see Cotto putting up with the Pacman. I'm rooting for Cotto, but he's got an amateur in his corner against a more versatile fighter who also happens to be every bit the warrior Cotto is. In order for me to think Cotto is going to win, there has to be a strategy or weakness that Cotto could exploit. I don't see him doing that in this fight. Maybe you see something I don't.

cotto's not shot, that is a lie. Maybe he's not...but he looked shot against Clottey. But keep in mind dude...I'm actually a fan of Cotto. I know its heresy to say on this particular board, but I'm not much of a Pacquiao fan these days. I definitely respect his skill and all that, but I don't have a rooting interest in him. Just trying to call it like I see it.

your a fan of cotto but you dont have him no where in your top 10 favorite list? hmmm. Lol...I'm also a fan of Mayweather. Want to give me a lie detector Sherlock Holmes Jr...lol.

U nuts???... Cotto should be the favourite TBH because he's a natural welter and pac is already a small JWW... Call me crazy...I think Pacquiao is a big 135 lber/average sized 140 lber. The reason why I believe this is because even when he was fighting at 122/126 he weighed 140+ the night of the fight. Cotto has always weighed in the mid-150s the night of the fight. So, yes he's bigger, but if he's shot (and he looked shot in his last fight) a fighter as active and determined as Pacquiao won't let up on him. Again, just my two cents...

People here actually have Boxing IQs...surprisingly. A Pac win is based off of him KO'ing Hatton the way he did, but unfortunately nobody wants to admit it. It's understandable though. I'm very far from a Pacquiao fan...just calling it like I see it. I'm a fairly big Cotto fan (which may surprise some Mayweather haters on this board). But just look at the skills the two have. Pacquiao is better at just about everything Cotto is good at. The only real advantage Cotto has is his size. But then look in the corner...Roach will build a great game plan for Pacquiao. Can Cotto's corner build a great game plan for Pacquiao?

so why wouldnt mayweather and cotto be in your top ten? they accomplished way more than the ten in your list lol. I'm promoting a youth movement. But more importantly, why do you care? Get a life. Maybe I'm a fan of dozens or even hundreds of boxers...put that in your pipe and smoke it...

I guess the fact that Clottey was 170 pounds of muscle and had a tight defense had nothing to do with it?? What punches have Pac taken above 135 Pounds that makes you think he can takes Cottos???? I'll wait. Are you saying that you believe that Cotto will KO Pacquiao? Because if that's what you think just say it. Yes, I think Pacquiao can take Cotto's punch. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

Say what? 3-1 are you kidding me? I am going to find a site to bet and put some money on a Cotto KO over Pacquiao! I think 3-1 is about right, but apparently most people think this is closer to a pick-'em. Rooting for Cotto; just don't really see him winning. Should be fun to watch though.

ye he knocked pavlik down in the 2nd and should of finished him off the 2nd fight was close but taylor faded late as he always does and lost a decision you think taylor is over-rated,thats your opinion doesnt mean im wrong because i disagree with you bud I don't think you're wrong because you disagree with me. I'm having a boxing debate with you. I'm not arguing with you. I'm talking boxing with a fellow boxing fan. I just disagree with you also. No problem here. Do you have one? Look, Taylor clearly has stamina issues. I'm not going to deny that, but he also isn't as talented as people seem to think he is. He also never really makes adjustments. That's another problem. Especially when you consider the amount of talent in the Super Six.

well the standard for HOF fighters is high and I think a fighter as young as Taylor may still make some good fights that may put him there, Is he there now? I dont know... Just for clarification; I dont believe he won that fight against Hopkins and I do believe that young fighters that show promise tend to get good treatment in judging. I also dont believe he is as overrated as you may be thinking. thats all im saying. and NO, a win over Hopkins will not be his only credit at the end of his career, hopefully this Super SIX tourney goes well for the sport and if it does I would put everyone who participated with courage in high regard. Taylor fights Abraham, Ward and Froch in that order. I think he gets beaten badly tomorrow. As long as Ward acquits himself well against Kessler (especially if he wins) then he should beat Taylor. Let's say Taylor losses to Ward also; do you think he avenges his defeat against Froch coming off of a three fight losing streak? Obviously, I've been wrong many times before and will be wrong many times in the future. But the fact is that Taylor has the most to prove in this tournament and it's not easy. All of his fights will be tough and based on what I've seen of him against middleweights and 147/154 lb fighters coming up in weight I have a hard time seeing him do better against talented legit 168 lb contenders/champions plus Abraham (a 160 lb stud who should be good at 168).

just because fighter A beat fighter B and fighter B is an all-time great that doesnt necessarily mean fighter A is an all time great aswell That is true, BUT my point was not as simple as Taylor beat Hopkins so Taylor should have a better career than Hopkins. Look Paul Williams beat Winky Wright, but he didn't outbox Winky Wright. He put Winky on the ropes and rained punches on Winky. If Taylor'd done that to Hopkins then whatever. It say very little about what would happen in any other fight. BUT both Taylor-Hopkins fights were very technical. In order to win Taylor would have had to have been the one outboxing Hopkins. And IF you can outbox a master boxer then that means you beat an all-time great at his OWN game. That's all I'm saying dude. If you disagree then you're entitled to your opinion.

dude, stfu, stop trying to act intelligent. you've been sonned on this forum way to many times for you to be talking like you've been through puberty. And for your stupid ass information, I had Floyd winning that fight. But you won't understand why I responded with what I did and there's a reason for that. Go find yourself a girlfriend. Floyd already has a baby mama. LOL...Dude you need to get a life. Every time I post here you go berserk. You really need to learn how to talk to people who disagree with you without going ape$hit.

A lot of people may care, actually. Vargas was giving Trinidad hell before getting stopped, and likewise Cotto was giving Margarito all he had. Both have since been praised for their efforts, despite coming up short. The fact that a fighter gets stopped, should they be outboxing their opponent, says a lot about that fighter, the fight itself, and even the guy who nabbed the stoppage. Questions may be raised about the skills of the latter, especially if they were being trounced before the stoppage opportunity arose. Sure, the stoppage came, but what may have been happening before that? It can be important to think about. In Froch's case, despite winning, he was being made to look like an idiot prior to the last few rounds. IMO the only reason he won that fight was because of Taylor's issues - not because of his own skill. So it's all good and well to say "Taylor may have been outboxing Froch, but because he got stopped who cares?", but that's a foolish way to look at it. I'm sure Froch himself would agree, in that even he knew he was in trouble before Taylor gassed out. He was getting outboxed, and it says a lot about Taylor's ability to do so. The only thing he didn't get was the win, but it was so nearly there. That just can't be disregarded. Fighting valiantly is obviously a thing that we should respect. Especially in Cotto's case with what we know about Margarito it's a shame that Cotto probably did what he did while Margarito had plaster of paris in his gloves. With Vargas, he fought bravely. He even made some adjustments. Taylor, at least to my eyes, never really made any adjustment at virtually any point in his career. He's a front runner. If it ALWAYS falls apart as soon as the other guy starts to come on strong then, well, the fighter has more than just stamina issues. Cotto and even Vargas did have some come from behind victories. Taylor doesn't have any. Great boxers are supposed to have supreme ring intelligence. Taylor just does the same thing over and over. Guys like that don't beat the Hopkins types of the world. Just my two cents.

I've been wanting to say this for about a year now. Just wanted to let that be known. Lol...that's one of many reasons. Did you see Henry Crawford against Antwoine Smith about two weeks ago. That's a case of a dude who gasses out because he put too much on his punches way too early in a fight. Jermain does a little bit of that too.

Dirrell should win this fight. I know I know...he's the most inexperienced fighter in the tournament. Ordinarily, that hurts in title fights, but Dirrell is no Jermain Taylor. Taylor doesn't really like boxing. His head was never in boxing. Dirrell is much hungrier and he's also much more naturally gifted than Froch (and Taylor for that matter). If he loses you can chalk it up to the experience factor. I couldn't really see Froch KOing Dirrell. I could see Dirrell catching Froch with something real quick and hurting him badly. Dirrell should be able to box circles around Froch and win at least 8 rounds. Fighters with Dirrell's gifts rarely lose to fighters as easy to hit as Froch. I know people aren't going to like reading that, but it's true. The only reason Dirrell isn't a big favorite in this fight is because Froch has more experience.

Reminds me of racism in America. People hating for no reason..only because they were ignorant and scared. Funny to come on to a boxing site to talk boxing and find yourself in a MMA hate thread...its pathetic. Dont worry boxing fans. the UFC and boxing in America can co exist. Just like blacks and whites they will one day get along. Props to the true boxing fans who appreciate Mixed Martial Arts. I promise you if f@ggot a$$ Dana White weren't spewing $hit about boxing every time he turns around most boxing fans wouldn't care enough about MMA to say anything about it. I watch it occasionally. It's ok sometimes. Not really my thing but whatever. I don't even like to get into debates with MMA fans because the only MMA fans I've met who have any respect for boxing are the ones who've liked both sports since before MMA was even popular.

there will always be those who cry robbery at every opportunity and you are clearly one of them whatever you say wont change the result,so i suggest you let it go mate Clearly? Dude you've never spoke about boxing with me before? What gives you the idea that you know what I would think about a robbery? The fact of the matter is you're making the argument that Taylor outboxed arguably the best middleweight of the last 40 years or so. You know that's what you're saying right? Now, let's take this a step further...you saw the fights right? They were highly technical fights not brawls. So, if Taylor won that means he had to have outboxed Hopkins, right? I could see if he just pushed Hopkins back and landed a lot of punches, but that's not what happened. Both fights were very technical. If he won then that mean you think he outboxed the best middleweight since Ray Robinson. Now, how do you go from outboxing Hopkins to not being able to outbox either Pavlik or Froch??? Answer me that and I'll grant you this debate. If you can't, then just remember that you can't make blanket statements about me because you've never talked to me before in your life.

Sure, I'm fine with that. I've made it clear elsewhere for some time now that I'm not giving JerJer much of a chance tomorrow, and I don't even dislike him. In fact, he's cool in my view. I like the guy because of his boxing style and personality, but his shortcomings in the ring are unfortunately too numerous to warrant my ever becoming a fan. No doubt...I don't have anything against him other than the fact that his "experience" and skills are over-rated. I felt bad for him when he got KTFO by Pavlik (you could just see how thoroughly disappointed he was), but at the same time this tournament is going to be harder than that fight with Pavlik was. I just don't see Taylor making it out of the group stage. I don't think he'll win a single fight.

What about Mosely vs Cotto Ok...I'll give you that if you're saying that's the beginning of the end for Cotto, but that was a toss up type fight...kinda like the first fight between Dawson and Johnson. I'm talking about fights where a guy was basically handed a decision against a HOF type "boxer" just because he threw more punches and then later proved to be less than stellar in the "boxer" category. Either because they got outboxed by other boxer types or because they couldn't outbox a strong determined fighter for 12 hard rounds. If you can really beat a Hopkins, a Whitaker, or a Winky there's no excuse for getting thoroughly outboxed by a Sturm or crushed by a Mayorga or a Pavlik or Froch. If you're that great of a boxer those other guys should be easy wins.

Don't you love when a fighter get's knocked out and then when he comes to he has no idea what the phuk happen. Just watching Hopkins/Warrick fight on ESPN classic. Warrick was like where am I, what happen? I lost? NO! :lol1: I actually think it's kind of annoying, but yeah it is also kind of funny to think how they're going to feel when people make fun of them for their immediate reaction. Probably the most recent time this happened when it really annoyed me was with Vic Darchinyan after Nonito Donaire knocked him the F out.

Winky fight was legit, many said Winky would beat Williams, yet the man lost every single round. Shane doesn't want to fight him, May doesn't. Berto doesn't. Like I said, after he outworks Pavlik he should get the respect he deserves. If he beats Pavlik he definitely deserves respect, but we don't/won't know what happens if he were to fight 147 lbers. But he's an exception. A 6'2" welterweight almost isn't even fair. I still think Mayweather and maybe even Mosley or Berto could beat him, but it's a middleweight against a welter. Anything could happen. Wright and Pavlik are better fights for Williams anyway.

I think Jermain should ride out the three fights in the tournament because he's not going to get fights at this level anywhere else is he keeps losing (which I believe he will) tournament or no tournament.

I want Pacquiao to win just because I don't want anyone to make any excuses after he gets his a$$ kicked. Plus, Cotto is shot...sorry to say because I like dude, but between Mosley, Cinder Blocks and Clottey he just got mashed up.

the things is taylor did beat hopkins Be honest with yourself man...serious...be honest with yourself. Taylor never beat Hopkins. The powers that be wanted people to believe Taylor was going to be the face of boxing and manufactured two wins over Hopkins. The beating Taylor took in those fights probably ruined him forever though. He never really looked good after the second Hopkins fight though.

Clottey get gun-shy. Yeah that has been his problem, but if anyone at 147 is going to beat Mayweather it's going to be him not any of the so-called real challengers who amount to nothing more than big money fights but will probably lose badly to Mayweather.

i think abraham will beat him too,but it will be more too do with his mentality/heart/staminia than his boxing skills-as all his losses have been Ok, fine, but I'm just saying I disagree. Is that a problem for you? I'm just saying that other than Taylor's stamina issues, I think if he was as good as his supposed "outboxing" of Hopkins would suggest then he should have been able to win a lot of the fights he lost much more easily. That's what I'm saying. Clearly you disagree and that's cool. I know I told you to be honest with yourself because in my mind, if you think Taylor was good enough to outbox Hopkins then you must think he's one of the all-time greatest...maybe that's not the case.

all the mega fights as of late have been let downs. so when casual fans tune in to see THEE fight, they dont get much out of it. I have seen fights that had they a mega fight audience, it would have them all talking after words, big time. so past or present what fight or fight's would you want to accompany MAJOR publicity, promotion, 24/7, all that good stuff? Mayweather-Pacquiao is THEE mega-fight. If you're talking about any fight other than that. I'm going to go with an unconventional one, but I really like the idea of Abner Mares-Nonito Donaire at let's say 118 being marketed like a mega fight.