As brave as Cotto has been, his running is ruining what was going to be an ATG fight. Total respect for hanging in there, but he isn't hanging in there the way warriors like Morales did. Toe to toe.
Somehow I don't think it's Pac either. He seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't be overly fussed with the financial side of things. But his camp is certainly ruining things, this is a potential mega-fight that could be FOTY, and greed is robbing the fans of it. This is what has become of our once glorious sport.
That must've been terrible for the poor guy. He sounds like a massive Khan fan, and it's bad enough seeing your favourite fighter lose on TV, let alone ringside. I remember how shattered I was seeing Morales crumble in the second Pac fight. Terrible feeling.
i thought oscar lost to quartey. chavez was already cut going into their first fight. he fought a shell of vargas after tito ruined him, then he lost all of his big fights. oscar is wack
Yeah a case can be made for Quartey winning too, but I personally thought Oscar snatched it in the 12th with the KD and near stoppage. A case can be made for Marquez beating Pac too. Vargas was hardly a shell, he was on roids and you only had to watch his performance that night to know he was a beast. Just because he was a bit off in the preceding fights doesn't change the performance he put on against Oscar. A brilliant win for Oscar.
By the way, I'm curious... In your sig you mention JMM as one of your all-time favourites, but he doesn't feature in your current favourites? Why?
I say Manny just on beating Barrera, Marquez (I honestly felt their 2nd fight was a draw but he got the W in his record) and Morales (even though he shouldn't have accepted the 3rdd fight at 130 lbs) while DLH lost to Trinidad (felt DLH won, but Tito got the W), Mosely, Hopkins, Mayweather and Manny.
So you point out Manny's wins, and then Oscar's losses? That's fair.
From another angle, you could say Oscar beat Trinidad and Mosley (2nd fight), as well as Vargas, Whitaker, Quartey and Chavez, and Pacquiao lost to the only live version of Morales he faced, and was knocked out twice in three rounds earlier in his career.
They are the facts (we all know Oscar beat Tito :biggthump). But I don't really believe it from that angle. I think they are very close, both have some big wins, Oscar was definitely robbed in his career defining fight. When looking at his resume I give him a win in that fight, and I know he didn't beat Felix Sturm, I give him a loss there. A case can be made he lost to Whitaker too, but it was far more disputable than the Tito fight, which was a clear robbery.
Oscar certainly has the deeper resume in my eyes, but Pacquiao has some massive wins. I'm sure he'll be ahead by the time he retires, after he crushes Hatton and has a chance against Floyd.
Both are ATGs.
People here always mistakes better resume with better career or better wins. Resume wise Oscar resume is the best of all time. He have more big names than anybody in the sport now and in the past. Ofcourse he didnt won most of his big fights, but that doesnt have anything to do with a better resume!!
Hardly.
Robinson fought HOFers a total of something like 27 times.
========Okay, this forum comes across to me as one that is littered with nuthuggers and haters, but does have some very good posters. Regarding the Pacman-Morales discussion that has been going on since the fight, both camps are taking ridiculously biased views - I may have been slightly biased at times too, maybe - and it is only making the forum look bad.================
** I agreed totally with your post, except that I had picked Pac to KO Morales because of their last round of the first fight. Half the people here wouldn't know class unless it came out of a garbage can, so you just have to appreciate the few who add to the board and let the rest dumpster dive.
I agree. Even though we disagree sometimes in the history section - i respect you as a poster, because you show class these guys lack.
I know it was all Pac. I seen the fight too buddy.
ye Morales said that. Morales said Pac makes alot of excuses. He told him to just fight and not make excuses. You callin the best poster of Boxingscene a LIAR? :mad:
Morales changed his views after Pac whmoped him. he humbled up. Further dissin Pac after gettin TKOed and brutally knocked down twice will just embarrass him and dmage his rep.
Morales is a warrior in the ring, but it's fans like you that make Pac fans MAKE FUN of terible. :rolleyes:
a) If you are the best poster here - then I am leaving now.
b) It doesn't change the fact that both had "excuses/reasons" after they lost.
c) Fans like me? What, objective fans who respect almost all fighters, and don't hate on others like you do? Whatever buddy.
And why the hell would Pac fans "make fun" of Erik? What the fuck is wrong with you? There is nothing to make fun of. Especially if you want to improve your hero's legacy - I would start respecting the man who beat Manny, and Manny beat.
Where's Marquez now and uh obviously JMM suffered some head trauma I mean the guy turned down $750,000 that's SEVEN HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. But hey he's M*xican so he must be smart to turn down 100s of thousands and fight overseas for peanuts. Great business move that's what i call SHREWD! By Me*ican standards
Everybody knows Mexicans are warriors in the ring. Stop disrespecting these guys so much man.
And are you going to answer me? Are you trying to make Pac a lesser fighter in my mind my degrading his biggest name opponents? Because if they really are crap as you say - then Pac is nothing but another average fighter with a padded record of bums. What is gonna be, mate?
My final word on Morales-Pac is... Morales s*cks
So what you are trying to say is, Pacman was beaten to a pulp by a fighter who "sucks"? i'm sure by your books Barrera sucks too...so who does that leave on Pac's resume? A draw, arguably a loss to Marquez...who sucks too right? Geez, suddenly Pac doesn't sound that crash hot.
Unfortunately, not all fighters can accept a loss like Kostya Tszyu. That man never, EVER makes excuses. He was 35 against Hatton, but he took it on the chin - and said, "he was just the better man".
Maybe fans should be like that too.
Blind nuthuggers.
You guys make me laugh. No wonder why you have no credibility on this sport.
I've said what I feel on the original post, I've shown class. Maybe you should do the same.
Ignorant.
Boxing is a practical proven sport that can be applied in the real world. Slipping punches and punching with your legs and rotating your hips is more affective than street fighters who throw arm punches. Punching to the body is more affective (and safer for you) than punching to the face as you could dislocate your knuckles.
Take some courses in wreslting as well. All street fights end up on teh ground.
Exactly. Punching technique, and punch evasion are very effective tools on the street. Most fights are with people who swing away with haymaker hooks, with no body behind them. I've even used the jab in a street fight...
And yeah, most fights end up on the ground - when you are evenly matched. Otherwise one or two punches will usually do it.
first, correct your spelling
second, read this: not because your boyfriend is trash-talked doesnt mean that the person talking shit does not know boxing. how about those mexican fans who trashed talked manny before the fight? do they know boxing too? get real fuckface :p
Read the thread I just created. And actually - I barely posted in this part of the forum before the fight, so I wouldn't know. And no, some of them don't really know boxing - they are just biased Mexican fans. And why call me fuckface? Was it necessary? Seriously, you guys need to lighten up on this place. Maybe if you took a break from insulting each other, you could learn some stuff.
Im the best none can dispute it! Just look at ma accuracy at predicting fight outcomes in ma sig :cool:
Fans like you yes. It's those fans that doesn't THINK! The same fans who would always pick the same fighta he CHOSE in the 1st to win a rematch. You pick Morales 1st time (right) and YOU JUST BLINBDLY WIT NO LOGIC thinks Morales wins again.
THOSE are the idiotic fans I call. Those guys that picked Erik to win the 1st fight had too much STOOPIDITY and LOVE fo Terible they DONT THINk CORRECTLY.
then aftawerds they make excuses fo Morales. Pacfans don't make fun of other fightas except the ones Manny faces BECUZ THEY HAVE STOOPID AND RACIST FANS (ive seen in the forum) :D
Actually, I picked Morales by decision in the first fight. In the second - I said, "My heart says Morales, but my head says Pac by decision." I went with my heart, and my head was proven correct. I saw the adjustments Pac made in his previous fight, especially with the right hand. You got owned buddy.
LMAO - you are calling people stupid, when you spell it like - "Stoopid". Ahhhh, ok.
FACT - all fans make excuses because they love their fighter. Same with fighters - they have too much pride. Pac fans made excuses in the 1st fight. Morales fans made them in the 2nd. You are talking bullshit, because you KNOW that I have been extremely reasonable about the whole thing, you just can't accept that a Morales fan has ACCEPTED the loss, because you want to continue talking shit.
Get a life.
I am a Pac fan, he is inside by top 10 favourite active fighters.
But Morales is one of my favourites ALL TIME, so obviously I was going for him. The thing about all fighters is - they ALWAYS have those fans who are total nuthuggers, and can't talk reasonably about anything regarding them. All fighters have these. What I have found is, Pac has more nuthuggers than any fighter - except maybe Wlad.
Nonetheless, as someone said earlier - how can you not be a fan of this guy. Brutal style, exciting style, massive power and speed, never-say-die attitude, granite chin...he brings a helluva lot to the sport.
I think Barrera beat Morales in the rubber match. Most experts and analysts saw the same thing. And I was rooting for Morales.
Agreed. I had it:
1 - Morales
2 - Morales
3 - Barrera
I had the same scores as you oldgringo. Once I scored the second fight 116-112 for Morales, but usually i get 115-113. It totally depends on the scorer. These fights were very close, and boxing is such a subjective sport.
It's like Hagler-Leonard...its split 50/50.
If you want a shit decision - look at DLH vs Trinidad. I watched that about 2 hours ago...and my god. It gets worse everytime. I had DLH winning 8-4, and the closest I see it being- not finding ANY way to give any more to Tito is 7-5.
The third fight was clearly Barrera's though.
I like Morales only a little bit more than Marco, I am not being biased.
this is just a thread for excuses. LOL!!!!! Manny washed Morales up. :D
And YOU are one of the main offenders. You deliberately set out to irritate the Morales fans, whilst having no objective views at the issues at hand. I am totally reasonable on this issue, and if you actually read my initial post - rather than skipping it and finding the bias Morales posts...you would see that. You are total hypocrites - "Pac's reasons were legitimate, but Morales' are just excuses". Oh no, someone who has fought war after war after war, left something in the ring everytime - and nobody expected to come back the same - couldn't possibly say this is an factor could they. All you are doing is showing how biased you are, and show how unwilling to approach an issue regarding your hero objectively you are.
Show some class.