jacobs was 30. Ggg was 35. 5 years is huge in boxing. Especially when you turn 35. And it was a ud. Barely won would be a sd.
You are putting a good middle weight (GGG) up against one of the greatest MW of all time in Hagler.The only MW that i have above Hagler is P4P king Ray Robinson Besides the king Hagler is thee greatest MW of all time.Hagler beat other P4P greats in Hearns,Duran Hard punching John the beast Magabi 26 0 0 26 KO. & at 32 years old fighting his last fight against 30 year old leonard who i had 115-113 for Hagler. Hagler also beat some big middle weights of the older generations before he won the belt.Hagler could go from south paw to orthadox in blink of an eye & had good power in both hands & by the 10th round would have you busted up from the inside out.
Golovkin lost to a welterweight. Twice
Hagler biggest wins were against wealter weights but they were against P4P greats what bigger names could some one beat in boxers Like Hearns,Duran,John Magabi & leonard who i think Hagler beat.Hagler also fought big full fledge MD of the older generation back in the mid 1970s before he won the belt. Hearn's who is considered the hardest WW puncher of all time & at 154 KO the legendary Duran & put him to sleep with one punch,Hearns who is the only boxer i have ever seen actually hurt Hagler but after Hagler started to warm up he started to walk through those right hands & stop Hearns in 3rd round in what ring magazine calls the greatest middle weight fight of all time.If a prime Hagler fought a prime GGG in a 15 round championship fight which is what Hagler was use to fighting Hagler stops GGG late in the fight.In a 12th round fight Hagler wins decision maybe 11th-12th round ko. If GGG fights Hearns Hearns ko GGG 3rd-4th round. It's hard to tell because GGG never fought the top elite boxers that Hagler fought. Thats not to put GGG down he just fought in a era of MW where there were no big names around until Alvarez moved up from 154 to fight him & believe their first fight was a draw but second fight Alvarez won. He could have proven himself by beating a great warrior in Alvarez but failed.
It would be a great fight. Hagler is bit gun shy and did not like it to the body. Mentally I give GGG the edge. And this is important. Hagler fought too conservative with a much smaller Duran, allowed Sugar Ray to outsmart him and failed to get busy early in the fight, and fought Vito Antuofermo to a draw. All of these matches happed in Hagler's prime at age 32 or under.
Power wise I would also give GGG the edge. Speed and reach wise, I would give Hagler the sight edge. Height and weight wise, I'd give GGG the slight edge.
How has the style advantage? GGG ate up former weight fighters in his prime. Hagler didn't always do this. I see a pattern of Hagler struggling with short, lower weight fighters. Check for yourself, it's there.
So who wins? I would predict GGG via spilt decision. The above reasons illustrate why.
It is a great fantasy fight.
First of all Duran was a P4P great winning belts in 4 different weight divisions.The only boxer to stop Duran was the Hit man by 2nd round KO,Hearns who P4P is one of the hardest punchers of all time.The first Antuofermo was a robbery even the ref told Hagler that once they announce him as the winner he wanted Hagler to stand over here when he raised his arms.He stopped the same Antuofermo in rematch.Hagler took big body shots in his second last fight of his career against John the beast Magabi 260026ko & was pissing blood after the fight didn't stop him from stopping Magabi in the 11 th round.Hagler was 31 in that fight & had 66 fights under his belt.The Leonard fight I thought Hagler won 115-113.Hagler was the Champion & you do not take a champions belt dancing around like a ballerina with pitty padder punches.Hagler landed more punches in the fight,landed the harder punches & was the one coming forward all night.Leonard vs Hagler is the most evenly divided fight on who people think won.Hearns is the only one that i have ever seen hurt Hagler it didn't stop Hagler from stopping him though in the 3rd round in what people call the greatest MW fight of all time.I see GGG like Hearns coming in to land his big punches & getting countered big time by Hagler.You say GGG has the height advantage what height advantage GGG is 5'10 & Hagler is 5'9 & a half.Half inch isn't even something that would be noticed.Hagler was great at going from south paw to orthadox which would confuse his opponents & he did so naturally.He had power in both hands & a chin of Iron.In Haglers day championship fights were 15 rounds & they also fought with smaller gloves.I have Hagler the 2nd greatest MW of all time only behind Robinson.Just because GGG looks good on paper doesn't mean he would have beat a P4P great like Hagler.The only 2 big named boxers i have ever seen GGG fight was Jacobs (which ended in a close decision for GGG) & a 154 pound Jr.Middle weight named Canelo Alvarez who had to come up 6 pounds to fight GGG & I believe their first fight ended in a draw while the second fight Alvarez wins decision.You talk about Duran (a P4P great) moving up to fight Hagler well there you be.Hagler in his prime meaning in his mid 20s against Alvarez in his 20s Hagler wins.BY the way Duran coming up in weight did not beat Hagler where as Alvarez did beat GGG. I could be wrong in GGG vs Alvarez 1 I think Alvarez might have won a split decision.GGG was a good MW but didn't fight the competition that Hagler fought.Hagler was great at figuring out his opponents.
Again telling the truth is not hating mate just like what haney said to everyone that mayweather messed up the sport. I was laughing every time i see mayweather fans getting mad because someone was telling the truth. :lol1:
Agreed.A great boxer who believes in himself wants to fight the best Just like Ali wanting to fight Foreman & everyone thinking he was going to get killed except of Coarse Ali himself & we all know what happened in that fight.Ali was 32 & Big George Foreman was only 25.Leonard taking on Duran & Hearns-Duran 3 times & Hearns 2 times.The list goes on but the 0 means more to Floyd than the challenge.Rocky Marciano was 49 00 42 ko weighed about 187-190 for his fights yet no one ranks him the greatest HW all time & for good reason,there were no great HW in that era for him to fight & beat & most believe had the 5'10 Mariano (shortest reach of any HW Champion) were to have fought in the early-mid 1970's he would have never have won a HW belt because of the big HW of the day the difference is Marciano would have no problem fighting Ali,Foreman,Frazier the only problem is he would have never beat these men.Had Floyd fought a young Mosley he gets Knocked out.Had Floyd fought Pacquaio Pacquaio stops him late or Floyd gets lucky with a counter & Ko pacquaio.Fights Oscar a young Oscar Oscar wins decision.These are guesses of coarse because we will never know because he waited until all their skills were mostly gone.
Floyd made boxing bigger, but he kind of messed up the game with the undefeated record so guys don’t wanna fight each other, they just wanna keep the 0.”
With his cherry-picking strategy, Mayweather has produced a Frankenstein monster that is now imitated by practically all fighters and promoters in the industry. When Floyd did take risks during his career, they were calculated ones where he would start a bout after a competitor displayed indications of ageing and injury.
https://www.insidesport.in/boxing-devin-haney-blames-floyd-mayweather-for-messed-up-state-of-the-sport/
Floyd has an 0 because he stayed away from big named fighters ( Specificly boxers with quick reflexes) He did every thing not to fight Pacquaio for 7 years until Pacquaio was 36 years old & his skills were half of what they were.He fought Mosley when he was 39 years old & still managed to rock Floyd twice in the second rd but at 39 Mosley didn't have the skills,reflexes,endurance or heart that he once had to finish the job.A 35 year old Oscar was even with Floyd after the first 8 rds but again at 35 couldn't pull off the last 4 rounds.The only thing Floyd is great at is the picking of his opponents.He likes fighting brawlers because his style is suited for this although most think he lost his first fight with Castillo & copy box numbers show he did in fact lose that fight.IN my day Leonard,Hagler,Hearns,Duran,Arguello,Pryor all these boxers & more are considered P4P greats & all have losses on their record but they also fought each other & more than once.Floyd vs Pacquaio was 1st talked about a year before Pacquaio fought Hatton & then once Pacquaio KO Hatton with 1 punch in 2nd rd (Floyd KO Hatton 11th rd) then the fight took off Floyd says he wants blood test done Pacquaio says no then a week later agrees to it but Floyd says to late,that was Floyds out & I believe after seeing what Pacquaio did against Hatton scared Floyd,Most great Champions would have saw it as a challenge not Floyd.Floyd's defense doesn't work as well against south paw how ever Pacquaio was no regular south paw & Floyd new this.You can't call Floyd great because we just don't know.If I was a betting man & a prime Mosley stops a prime Floyd.Against a prime Pacquaio Floyd gets stopped late in the fight or Floyd lands a punch that pacquaio doesn't see & gets Ko.Against a prime Oscar Oscar wins decision.Of coarse i have to guess because that is all Floyd has left me.The only way to tell which fighter is better is to fight each other when both are in their prime when both fighters still have their skills,you can't beat a 39 year old man when you are 33 & then brag about it.
Hearns wins it out. Bigger, longer, stronger. Theres a reason FMJ didnt fight PWill. Hearns is way better than PWill ever was.
Mosley right hand buckled Floyds knees twice Hearns right hand (the hardest ww puncher of all time) would have put him to sleep like he did to Duran.It is hard to defend against Hearns because of his quick reflexes,long long reach,great jab & when you are 6'1 against 5'8 & the punches are coming from way up there Floyd done.
You're watching boxing for almost 50 years and you say Floyd is one of the overrated boxers ever? You don't know a thing about boxing. Do everyone a favor and shut the **** up and go listen to old rock music or something. You're an embarassment
He is over rated.Great boxers don't avoid & hide from fighting other great fighters for 7 years.If he was so great & confident in his skills fight Pacquaio when he was still great & had all his skills.When he does fight good boxers when they are still young they are always very close fights or he is given a gift decision.His first fight against Castillo till this day have not met a person or other boxing fan who think Floyd won that fight.The 2 fights with Maidana & cotto were very close fights.Had he fought a young Mosley or Oscar I think he loses.When he beat Mosley who was 39 at the time & seriously hurt Floyd in the second round of that fight,take 8 years off Mosley & he beats Floyd.After 8 rounds against a 35 year old Oscar the fight was even the older Oscar lost steam for the last 4 rounds against the much younger Floyd.The one really great thing Floyd is its fooling the boxing public.You have true boxing fans than you have Floyd fans,the true boxing fans who watch all boxing fights & have been doing so for a long long time know the difference.Floyd fans who only watch Floyd fights are the ones that are fooled.In Robinson's first 129 fights he lost just 1 fight & accomplished that at 147 & 160 weight divisions against the best boxers of the time & didn't hide from anyone,this is what greatness in boxing looks like.I will say it again it is hard to judge Floyd because of his opponents he has fought through out his career against boxers he could have fought when they were in their prime rather than wait to fight them until they are ready to collect social security.All great fighters lose because all great fighters want to fight other great fighters to prove themselves.Floyd does everything he can to avoid them Floyd could have fought Pacquaio after Pacquaio KO Hatton with 1 punch end of 2nd rd but believe after Floyd saw that ko he did everything to not fight him.Imagine Leonard avoiding Hearns for 7 years after seeing Hearns Ko an opponent (as he did alot) as Leonard said that was the biggest fight of his career & he fought the elite like Hagler & Duran.If i was in charge of listing ring magazines top 100 P4P greats i would put Floyd anywhere from 45th to 55th greatest boxer,there are just to many more proven boxers over the last 120 years.
Oh yeah, I don't blame them I was scared for Manny, he hit the floor like a dropped pie by a guy Floyd toyed with, I thought he was dead I was worried for him.
Thats why they never want to discuss Mannys resume with Floyds they hate having to compare their fights head to head, there is way too much fault in Mannys with 8 loses to guys Floyd wouldn't drop a round to, Manny would have 10-12 losses if he fought Floyds resume from 130 up, Manny was a great champion that will go in the history books he just was not as good as Floyd, that's why he lost 8 times while Floyd proved to be the best fighter of his era, the haters just cant handle it.
Difference Pacquaio fought the best fighters in his weight division (all 8) & fought them when they were in their prime.When Floyd fights big named opponents they are almost always well past their prime.The Floyd vs Pacquaio fight could have happen after Pacquaio KO Hatton but Floyd would go on making excuses after excuses for 7 years & then when the pressure got to be to much & Pacquaio was well past his prime ( Pacquaio style of fighting is for the young) where his quick reflexes & fast foot work & side to side movement were no longer.Pacquaio was well past his prime when he was Ko against Marquez (Marquez one of the greatest Mexican boxers of all time) If boxing has proved one thing it is you can't compare what one fighter does against another .Floyd easily handle Marquez which Pacquaio didn't do.Well maybe because both Floyd & Marquez are both defensive fighters who like to counter.Pacquaio is all about offence & is the reason why the Marquez vs Floyd was extremely boring compared to the 4 Pacquaio vs Marquez fights.Floyd never fought Pacquaio when he was in his prime because he knew he had little chance of winning.Floyd promotes his own fights for a reason,he only takes fights he knows he can win.It is hard to say how good Mayweather really is because he didn't have the mind set like Leonards,Hearns,Arguello,Hagler Durans etc.These guys wanted to be considered the best so they fought the best & this is why they all had losses on their record.Even Oscar fought the best of his era Quartey,Trinidad,Mosley,Hopkins.All great fighters lose because they fought other great fighters & this is something Floyd can't lay claim to.The great Robinson went 93 fights straight with out losing & just 1 loss in his first 129 fights & he is the reason we have the P4P phrase.He won the middle belt 5 times & at a time when there was only 1 belt for each division so you had to fight the best to win the belt & then defend against the best.Robinson didn't even move up to middle weight until he was 29.Robinson-Ali-Louis-Hagler were all great fighters & Floyd isn't in the same league,Pacquaio is.
What would happen if Hearns was unable to land it, thats the part thats not a given, any fool would see if Hearn's landed flush on a guy from 130 he would sleep him, he do the same to Manny probably quicker, but its fantasy tell me what is the result if Hearns cannot land a KO shot, could Mayweather use his faster more angle feet movements, could Mayweather out think Tommy out move Tommy, Its a very different fight IF Hearns couldnt land his best shots.
And its because of this I wouldnt bet on the fight anything other that little for fun, I may think Tommy wins but I wouldnt bet on it, and it makes me laugh how matter of fact fans think it is, if they were ring side and had there house on it they would be shting bricks.
Flush on a guy from 130?are you talking about Duran who started his career at 135 & is considered to have one of the best chins of all time.It is not just that Hearns is considered the hardest WW puncher of all time he had great skills,just ask Leonard.Leonard said he couldn't get away from Hearns quick jab & when it did land it was like a sledge hammer.Hearns was 32 0 0 30 KO when he fought Leonard but Leonard proved that night what a great chin he had.Leonard was also a true 147 wealter at 5'10.Floyd at best was 140 pounder.A 39 year old Mosley right hand hurt Floyd badly in the second round of their fight not once but twice,but at 39 just didn't have the reflexes,endurance or heart to finish up.What do you think Hearns would have done.It is very hard to defend against some one who stands 5 inches taller than you with an 8 inch reach advantage over you,with quick reflexes & power in both hands.I was a big Hagler fan & saw a good 28 of his fights & only saw one fighter rock Hagler & that was against Hearns & that is 2 division ups from 147 against one of the greatest middle weights of all time.Like i said Floyd would have had a way better chance against Leonard,Duran,Arguello.I think Leonard would win decision over Floyd.I think Floyd wins decision over Duran & Arguello but could be wrong.Even if floyd fought in the leonard era we would still be wondering if he would have beat these guys because i think he would have avoided these guys as well especially Hearns.
If floyd had of beat thurman, Spence, brook, then there's no reason why I wouldnt give floyd a chance to do well against hearns.
Thurman,Spence & brook are good boxers but no where in the same league as Hearns.Didn't a 40 year old Manny beat a 20 something Thurman?Hearns at 6'1 & a half with those freakish long reach,with that great jab,hard left hook & deadliest right hand in WW history.He also had quick reflexes.All these things are extremely hard to defend against especially when the punches are coming from up above.His right hand splits Floyds Glove defence.Duran was never given credit for his good defense but he did have good defence & a iron chin but that didn't serve him well against Hearns who knocked Duran down twice in the first round & knocked him cold in the second round.Mosley has got a good right hand & he seriously hurt Floyd twice in the second round of their fight Hearns right would put him to sleep.Floyd would have had a better chance at beating leonard & Duran.Arguello was my idol & given his style & Floyds style i would bet Floyd would have beat Arguello on decision but again it is hard to judge Floyd because of the fighters he has fought.The 2 fighters from my era that i would have bet my house on to beat Floyd would have been Hearns & Pryor.I don't mention Hagler because Hagler fought his whole career as a 160 pound middle weight a division Floyd never fought at & Hagler would have just been to big & strong for the smaller Mayweather.
Brook, Spence, and THurman were the fights to make. THey were better oppoents than Berto, Maidana etc etc. If Pac can fight thurman and Spence why cant floyd? THey were toughest available, although Thurman and Brook wont be ATGs anytime soon, so why cant floyd fight them?. So no reason to not fight them. If you want to be beating Hearns in fantasy fights, you need guys like thurman and Brook on your resume.
So what we care seeing with floyd is he dont fight ATG in lrime, plus he don't fight even very good opponents in prime.
I agree in my day the best fought the best Hearns,Leonard,Arguello,Pryor,Duran,Hagler,Chavez,Sanchez e.t.c These fighters i listed all are considered all time Greats & all eventually had losses on their record & that is because all fought each other & other Greats Mayweather is nothing special he just didn't fight the best when they were in their prime.He had fought Pacquaio in his prime he could have a loss on his record.Same for a young Mosley who was 39 when he fought Floyd & Oscar was 35.With the exception of the retarded 3 Judges everyone i have talked to who saw the first Floyd vs Castillo fight had Castillo winning as did Copy box numbers who had Castillo landing 203 of his punches to Floyds 157 punches.Castillo landed 40% of his punches to Floyds 35%.Castillo was coming forward 90% of the fight.As far as I am concern Floyd was given a gift that night.
Other than both sugar ray's and charley burley nobody beats hearns@147 and nobody in history beats him @154
I have watched boxing for 48 years & have never heard of Charley Burley will look him up if he is real.Leonard had a great chin (which no one talks about) & Hearns also came in at 145 on weigh in 2 pounds under the weight limit .2 pounds doesn't sound like a lot but in boxing it is a lot & consider Hearn's was 6'`1 & a half it means a lot more specially in a 15 round champion ship fight.I do not want to take anything away from Leonard who was also one of the greatest WW of all time.
Brook, Spence, and THurman were the fights to make. THey were better oppoents than Berto, Maidana etc etc. If Pac can fight thurman and Spence why cant floyd? THey were toughest available, although Thurman and Brook wont be ATGs anytime soon, so why cant floyd fight them?. So no reason to not fight them. If you want to be beating Hearns in fantasy fights, you need guys like thurman and Brook on your resume.
So what we care seeing with floyd is he dont fight ATG in lrime, plus he don't fight even very good opponents in prime.
They should have fought in their prime this is the only way to see who is the real best.At 36 Pacquaio had lost a lot of his talent.Floyd knew this to & the reason he final agreed to it after 6 years of bitching.
Great post overall and nothing but truth.
Thanks.I am 55 & have been watching boxing religously for 48 of those years.Remember when he fought Mosley who was 39 years old at the time & rocked Floyd twice with his right hand imagine Mosley 8-10 years younger what would have happen to Floyd.I just think Mosley at 39 just didn't have the timing,endurance or Heart to pull it off.Floyd is one of the most over rated boxers of all time & is hard to judge how good he was because of his opponents or lack there of.He did fight good boxers but most were well past there prime.The fight against Castillo their first fight most believe Floyd lost & copy box numbers all show he did lose punches landed by Castillo 203 Floyd landed 157.Floyd landed 35% of his punches Castillo landed 40% of his punches.Castillo was the one coming forward 90% of the time.The 3 Judges for the fight were Asian & European who are known to favour the boxer.I did have Floyd winning the rematch.When we do see Floyd fight good fighters in their prime the fights are always very close like with Cotto & his 2 fights with Madana.Hearns at 147 or 154 easily Knocks Floyd out.There was no bigger puncher at 147 than Hearns & if he Knocked Duran Cold than Floyd would be of little to no problem.
May is only 2 years younger than Mosley.
A younger Mosley would have been fighting a younger May.
Don't know what kind of point you were trying to make but you failed.
Pac would have been KTFO if that right landed on him.
Pac has been KO'd by worse fighters multiple times.
He fought Mosley immediately after Mosley KILLED Margarito.
The 1 man Pac Bois bend the knee to more than Pac.
Try again pal,Mayweather is 6 years younger than Mosley.You are going to dictate to me & you can't even get their age right.Floyd did well later in Boxing because he pampered himself with easy fights.You do not know who the best fighters are when they are fighting each other at age 36 & 37 you only find out who the best is when they are in their prime & still have all their skills.When Pacquaio got Ko by Marquez (one of the greatest Mexican boxers of all time) he no longer had that side to side movement or bouncing on his feet anymore & didn't even see that punch coming.Marquez lost their first 3 fights although i had Marquez winning their 3rd fight.
Hearns kos Mayweather..........................Rockin':boxing:
easily,it's a mismatch.Hearns would have just been to big,fast but mainly it would have been his punching power.It is hard to judge how good Floyd was because he could have fought 5-6 really good boxers in their prime but chose not to.From the good fighters he did fight in their prime the first with Castillo everyone i talk with think Castillo won their first fight but Floyd did win the rematch.Cotto was very close & first fight with Maidana very close as well.How would he have done against a classic boxer light Leonard who had good punching power (nothing compared to Hearns) & very fast hands.There is no question that Floyd never fought the type of Class of Hearns & Leonard so it is hard to tell how good he was.I actually think he would have defeated my Idol Arguello by decision that is only because of Arguello style.Duran ?? Pryor would have over whelmed Floyd late in the fight.Floyd likes to say he is P4P the greatest even better than Robinson because he went 50 fights without losing.That really got to me.Robinson went 93 fights without losing & just 1 loss in his first 129 fights.He moved up to middle weight from 147 when he was 29 years old & would go on to win the middle weight belt a record 5 times & at a time when there was only 1 belt for each division not like 4 belts today.Robinson is the reason the term P4P was invented.Am not sure how good Floyd could have been had he fought the best of his era but do know Robinson was in a class of his own .Ali was bar none the greatest HW all time while Robinson was P4P the greatest.I would put Floyd in the top 40 because he did go undefeated in his 50 fights & fought some good brawlers,but just to many more deserving & proven greats over the last 120 years of boxing for the top 30.
reach isn't the end all be all that people say it is
It isn't just the reach Hearns would have had over Floyd it's height,quick reflexes but most important devastating punching power in that right hand.Mosley rocked Mayweather with his right hand & he was 39 years old.Hearns right hand would have knocked Floyd out just like he did with the legendary Duran.Floyd avoided boxer-punchers like the Plague.
Floyd Doesn't Beat Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Benitez, Pryor Or Arguello
First of all, Floyd wouldn't have had the ballz to climb in the ring with those legends in their prime, period. Leonard, Hearns and Duran alone went up to challenge Marvin Hagler and between the four of them, had 9 epic bouts! Floyd doesn't have that kind of machismo. Not to mention all those legends hurt guys, they stalked down their opponent and knocked guys out; another reason Floyd would have avoided those guys. It's insulting any clown would try to compare Floyd to those legends.
I agree.Everytime Floyd fights a big named boxer they are almost always over the hill.There are only 2 top elite boxers he fought who were in their prime & 1 was D.Corrales who was looking at a 2 year prison sentence for assaulting his girl friend so mentally he wasn't ready for a big fight,but give credit where credit is do he easily beat Corrales.The other would be Jose Castillo Who almost everyone i have talked to think Castillo won.Copy box numbers for their first fight Castillo landed 203 punches Mayweather 157 punches landed.Castillo landed 40% of his punches Mayweather 35% of punches landed.Castillo was the Aggressor through 90% of the fight.Floyd was given a gift that night.Against a young Pacquaio Mayweather does not win & he knows it & is why the fight never happened until Floyd was convinced that at 36 he had slowed down enough for Floyd to win.Hearns easily stops Floyd.Leonard win decision & Duran wins decision.Mosely seriously hurt Floyd in the 2nd round of their fight but at 39 did not have the reflexes,endurance or will to finish it.Just imagine what Hearns right hand would have done.Hearns KO Duran with 1 right hand in the 2nd round & looked like pan cake batter on the ring floor & this is Duran who is considered to have one of the best chins in boxing history.Hearns would have had a 6 inch height advantage & a huge reach advantage over Mayweather & that is hard to defend against.He also had a great jab & quick hands.Floyd has one big gift & that is the choosing of his hand picked opponents.The truth is we will never really know how good he was because unlike The great boxers of the 1970's & 1980's he never fought the best when the best were in their prime.I have watched a good 22-25 fights of the great Hagler & in those fights only saw him hurt 1 time & that was very early in the 1st round against Hearns but after that shook them off & do not know if that was because Hearn's had broke his hand (hearn's did break his right hand in the 1st round of that fight) or because Hagler got caught with a big punch early & wasn't warmed up yet.Hearn's,Leonard,Robinson,Ali,Arguello,HaglerDuran e.t.c all had losses on their record because all had long careers & none of them ducked fighters.