Well what did these guys do at 35? Pernell lost to Tito, Sugar lost to Norris, Hearns lost to Barkley, Floyd beat Cotto...
I hear you but i think there is a important difference in each case that comes down to career wear and tear based on level of competition as well as a few other factors.
Pernell) long list of great fighters fought as well as always seeking out toughest possible competition as well as storied cocaine addiction. Pernell at the time of his fight with Tito was nowhere near floyd vs cotto in regards to health.
Hearns) same could be said when comparing hearns and the murderous opposition he fought in his career. Nobody on Floyd's resume comes close to the sugar ray leanord Hearns was outboxing till he got knocked out. Keep in mind that the fight against Barkley was above Hearns best weight and we are speaking "primes". I would also say that Hearns biggest weakness (chin) would not have been a big factor against floyd.
Sugar Ray) you and I both know about all the greats Sugar beat as well as realizing the Ray that fought Norris is a shadow of a shadow of Ray.
Mayweather at 35 has fought some really good fighters but nowhere close to the fighters above. He has managed to stay well preserved in a fighting sense and i would say has not lost a step at 35 while the fighters mentioned had lost their legs comparatively at a similar stage. prime for prime though?....i dont see it
wtf kinda statement.at 154 cotto would maul whitaker,and have a great chance of breaking down tommy.and if they fought him at 35 years old like floyd at 154,cotto would beat all 3 of them
I've gotta respectfully disagree on a few points as well as make myself clearer.
My posts is in response to overall skill as a fighter but it does become confusing based on the close proximity to the mentioned fighters weight classes.
That said I don't see even a 154 cotto having a chance if a prime Whitaker stepped a few pounds to meet him at 154. But I don't think we have to measure it this way. Not to long ago cotto was a really good 147 pounder. If we took the Cotto who defeated Zab Judah and matched him with the Pernell who defeated Buddy Mcgirt or against the Hearns or Leonard that faced of at the same weight....I think this would be a fair compromise as far as fighter comparison goes and I believe he would be embarrassed by all of them. The Floyd Mayweather that faced Gatti or Marquez at 147 would fair better but I believe would lose as well to all mentioned.
This is not a prime Floyd.
Tell me how Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and Tommy Hearns looked at 35.
I agree it's not a prime Floyd and made some stipulations in later posts. I would however state that Mayweather though not as great as his best has not lost as much as many may think. His foot speed has slowed a bit but he has maintained greatly. I think most people see him having a tough fight against Miguel and use this as evidence to him being 8 steps back from his prime. Is Castillo in a P4p sense that much better than Cotto? Floyd in his prime had a tough fight there as well. In regards to Age which is still a factor I do think that the modern athlete ages far better than the fighters of 30 or even 10 years ago but keep in mind I did make a correction in my thinking and went back to a younger 147 floyd
I think this fight kind of puts it in perspective for people. Hearns, Duran, SRL, Halger. They were on a different level than these guys.
Mayweather would have been competitive, but he wouldn't go through those 4 undefeated.
I dont see him winning any of those fights, do you? I really view mayweather as a great fighter but cant see him beating the mentioned as well as several others. Just seems like when people bring up ATG's they dont realize how stacked and talented that list is
What would an ATG have done Saturday?
I am a big fan of Mayweathers skill but have to ask what would it have looked like having a prime Sugar Ray Leanard, Pernell Whitaker, or Tommy hearns in the ring fighting cotto? Though Floyd is indeed a great I believe there is a separation between him and some of the ATG. I can't imagine the beating the above mentioned would have administered to a really good fighter in Cotto. Floyd is a great as well but I can't see him in a p4p sense fighting a prime Roberto Duran
An atg would have done exactly what the atg did on Saturday. He would have allowed his opponent to fight at his best weight without bogus stipulation. Entered the ring 1st like the challenger does. Engage in combat. Weather the storm, outlast his opponent & take command of the championship rounds just like the atg did. What's to complain about??
Don't get me wrong and I should have phrased it better. Money May is an all-time great but as a fight fan and having so much boxing history as well as great fighters who have graced the sport I think it is only natural to make comparisons. With many people gravitating to the school of thought that May is the greatest or in the top echelon of the greats (top 10)...I felt compelled to ask the question.
floyd is not past prime and cotto fought the fight of his life and made things interesting.great fight
I agree. Floyd is a lot like Bernard Hopkins in that he is a fitness fanatic that is always in top shape. I see him being in top form for a couple of years
Floyd IS past his prime. Whoever doesn't know a 35 year old boxer is not the same as he was in his 25 is just plain stupid.
Way past his physical prime. Still fast though and can beat most out there.
Not stupid just observant. Though a little out of peak I don't believe he is as far off as many think he is. The modern athlete is different with a longer prime than in the past (bhop).
Prime Rocky Marciano. And he would dominate everyone. Everyone.
I respect that but im not sure if a prime Marciano would get past Wladimer let alone Vitali
Daquan Arnett :fing02:
Not the best opponent but here you go.
Watch his jab and his first counter and his reflexes. The kid fights like a featherweight. :lol1:
That boy got some hands!! His footwork not as fluid as a GRJ but he one to watch
the only hard fight for ray robinson anywhere between 147 and 175 lbs would be andre ward, who is a very sound boxer with a solid chin who would likely have 15 lbs on robinson on fight night
i still would favor robinson. ward would be a tough puzzle to solve with those two big 10 oz everlast pillows he wears and his defensive style.
dawson could put up some resistance, but lets face it, he wouldnt. he doesn't do enough.
at his best robinson was a big WW and no more.
I think a heavier Bernard Hopkins with his dirty tactics and sturdy chin would also give some problems
Why not name the thread: "Four fights you really want to see"
1. Pac - Mayweather
2. Ortiz - Khan
3. Canelo - Cotto
4. Dawson - Bute
There's cards in the past that I wanted to see that we're priced to high and were filled with to many fillers. Just looking at the crazy ppv prices got my curiosity up in regards to what would get me and other fight fans to put down 100 on a ppv
I never understood why people feel they have to love one or hate the other. I've been a boxing fan for about 25 years but have also been a big mma fan since UFC 1 as well as respecting and admiring kickboxing (Denis Alexio) though not as big on it. There is so much to both but unfortunately many boxing fans fail to realize that each individual aspect of mma is a long storied history In itself. Jujitsu, boxing, muay Thai, karate, wrestling, judo and many other combat sports with over 100 years of history are all aspects of mma. Though I'm primarily a boxing guy I do keep up on mma and realize jujitsu is not just "2 guys rolling around". A basketball fan doesn't have to hate football and vice versa
Ike is my second favorite fighter only behind Erik Morales, I really loved the way he fought.
How he'd do against Pac and Mayweather?
Against Pacquiao it's 50/50 imo. Quartey would land bigger shot and really bust Pacquiao face with that great jab, but at the meantime Pacquiao workrate would keep him in the fight as Ike had tendency to just go behind that shield when you attacked him. Even if he was setting up some counteres doing so, it wouldn't be enough to take all adventage given to Pacquiao by covering up. Result would probably depend on what given judges would prefer and form of a day of both guys.
Quartey - Mayweather? Prime Floyd would probably win competitive, but comfortable decision. He could use his tricks to open Quarteys shield a little bit, like when he sets up punches upstairs with his jab to the body. He would have some problems with Ike jab, but he'd very much nullify this weapon with his movement. I see him being a lot on bicycle in that fight. Also I don't belive Floyd would be effective with his right counteres against Ike as I saw many people suggesting. A lot of fighters tried to counter it and found out how hard it was with timing, speed and power behind it. Lopez could take adventage of Quarteys jab, but it's because he was punching with him rather than making classic counteres and that's something Floyd never does.
Really good knowledgable post. I was assuming both fights would be close. One of the problems Ike could run a cross is judges not seeing some of the nuances in his style as well as scoring punches for a fighter like pac that may not land cleanly on Ike
You mean when Mayweather was younger and faster? Yeah, I suppose it would have been a shutout then.
He would have been and it's possible the fight would have been a cakewalk for him but it's also possible cotto would of made it a little harder of a fight. I lean towards it being a little easier for May but I'm not sure
Ssm was super cool. Hung out with him and his team at the cabin in big bear. Oscar was cool but a little weird
Sexy Sergio is super cool
Victor Ortiz is really cool mellow and positive
Margarito is really funny.
Mayweather was actually really cool. He seemed really down to earth not at all like he portrays himself in the 24/7
Margarito seem like he'd be pretty interesting. What was the deal with De La Hoya?
They mismanaged Vargas. I never liked him, but throwing him in with Trinidad that young was stupid. He was ruined in that fight. He would have probably had a better career otherwise.
I felt that way about Magic man paulie and Litzau, but they both eventually got creamed.
So true about Vargas and David Reid. Would like to know the rational behind throwing them in with Tito
he can do great at 154 and even if he losses as long as there competitve fights he can still be a PPV cash cow like oscar
he has the potential to be a cross over star just based off his looks and Mexico fan base
That's legit. Jose Aldo a badass
I don't see the little guys dominating the next era of boxing from a marketing standpoint.
It's very very rare to see back to back eras dominated by small guys without a true Heavyweight superstar.
I think they need a real breakout star when the Klitsko's step down
My bad, i just read where u said using only 3 fighters in history.....Ok
Mayweather with Olivares punching power is all you'll need.....
You think that's enough to take the greatest of all time spot though?
Kelly Pavlik, Mikey Garcia and Nonito Donaire.
Pavlik was a cool guy, was waiting in the lobby with everyone for a fight to start.
Mikey Garcia is a really down to earth guy. Let me take a picture with him when he was with his family and talk to him with his little one strapped to his chest.
Nonito was cool, sounded like a nice guy.... but he had body guards all over him and seemed like he was in a hurry
That's kinda funny that Donaire finding it necessary to be with so many body guards at this point.
DLH rarely won big fights. So thats false.
Who wants PPV anyways. Give me a network star.
You would prefer network money to ppv money if you were a top promotor?
as opposed to someone who got a gift decision against ponce fuccen de leon
:bryce:
Was seriously asking your opinion and curious to see what you thought regarding how far his skill could take him