I know for a Fact that DelaHoya avoided the Flyweight unification match offered to him for Sandoval to fight Olascuaga.
Instead choosing to fight Yafai.
So I wouldn't doubt he's at fault.
But where did you get that it's Him avoiding putting Ortiz in against Ennis ?
Real reason for Virgil suing is that he wants to sign with Zuffa they want to promote the fight without Delahoya. Its funny though because I think Oscar is actually watching out for him. He's going to get cucked.
I know for a Fact that DelaHoya avoided the Flyweight unification match offered to him for Sandoval to fight Olascuaga.
Instead choosing to fight Yafai.
So I wouldn't doubt he's at fault.
But where did you get that it's Him avoiding putting Ortiz in against Ennis ?
Real reason for Virgil suing is that he wants to sign with Zuffa they want to promote the fight without Delahoya. Its funny though because I think Oscar is actually watching out for him. He's going to get cucked.
27-17-1 Gabe Rosado vs 19-16-2 Vaughn Alexander ..
Battle of the journeymen. Lets go :boxing:
Wow I feel bad for Rosado. He was a decent fighter, awful management to end up with that many losses. He was only in a few fights that he was dominated, had the heart to stay in most of his fights.
Colbert is guy who's career is free falling, he had the look of a future star before this losing 3 fight losing streak...
He seemed awesome until he fought that Valenzuela guy. He got too cocky too early. I noticed his career died when he changed his nick name from Lil B-Hop to w/e tf it is now.
I think he doesn't have a lot of one punch KOs because he doesn't hit guys with many punches they don't see coming. That's because a) he's always stalking so guys are always on the defensive and b) he's kind of slow.
That is a very good point. Guys fight him extremely defensive since they know he is a great puncher.
I just wish you guys would quantify what you guys think his power is.
But guys like Stevens, Rosado, Brook weren't KO'd. Stevens retired on his stool. Rosado was a ref stoppage; mainly due to the cuts. I think his corner possibly threw the towel. And Brook was also a corner stoppage.
If you look at my gigantic book like post I mentioned this. I do not think his power is 10/10 because of this factor. Most of his recent fights have ended in stoppages not clean KO's.
people will say its me being a fanboy but i genuinely give his power at 160 a 10/10. Pretty much all the fighters say his power is something else, apart from brook but getting wobbled in round 1, his reaction to the body shots and a fractured eye socket tell me otherwise. Stops every opponent, and theres not many clean shots he lands which dont seem to have a visible effect on the opponent, especially his body shots. As another poster says, i dont think he gets that many clean knockouts because his opponents are usually in retreat mode after first couple of rounds
I sort of disagree because he doesn't get clean KOs but Redd Foxx and you make some good points. He doesn't get these clean KOs because his punches are not catching guys off guard like Martinez did.
As I said in another thread today, it's just sitting down on punches and hitting with good form. Sounds simple but not a lot of guys can do that because it leaves you open and you have to be damn good at offensive footwork (which Golovkin is). He doesn't get 1-punch KO's because that's more about timing. Golovkin isn't as crisp with the timing as guys like Canelo, but he does just fine pressuring so it evens out. His style leaves him open to take shots but you would not see the same type of power if Golovkin used movement like Crawford or Loma. It's just the way the science works.
Great points. This is true. Thanks for posting on this thread, I saw your post on another thread and wanted your opinion.
Ive truly believe that what makes him a great puncher is his accuracy and positioning + balance.
About power, I doon't even think hes the most powerful at 160, Lemiex hits harder than him. If GGG is 8 Lemule is 9 or more but here is the sweet science.
Pure punchers connect with a 9-10 power shot 1-2 times in 10 attemps.
Golovkin on other hand connects his 8 power shot 4 times in 5 attempts.
It the non stop consistency of 8 power punches that break down everyone.
Great points. I think that is what makes him so great. He has great power, a true boxer puncher. I wish he moved up soon, I think he could be p4p #1 and have belts in multiple weight classes to be an all time great but he just seems so intent on unifying in 160lbs. I guess it makes sense though. Clean out a weight class then move up. The issue is also his age. He is not a young guy, and regardless of his physical attributes, his style is not one that ages well.
Had money on Ward, was neutral. No way Ward won.....
I'm sorry they robbed Kovalev.....
Ok maybe I overreacted its not a robbery but I think Kovalev got the win, and he had belts beforehand....
Mason "The Line" Dixon is legendary.
If fight is too close to call the champ wins.
Ward eeked out the close rounds but gtfoh this fight was KOV's. I agree with Mason.
Kov would lose even if he knocked Ward out. He'd have to KO dude twice.
It's the 3rd one that does it for me, when Pacquiao was running through everyone and most, including myself, felt Marquez had no chance. Boy were we wrong.
Yea i thought he was going to slaughter JMM in that fight..amazingly enough that is the only fight he did not drop Juan
I remember seeing Juan walking in to the ring in the third fight. The energy in the building was like they were taking a lamb for slaughter. The announcers were talking about how Pacquiao had gone far beyond JMM at this point, and that it would be a good fight for however long it lasted.
The only two people in the whole building who believed JMM had a chance were JMM (even he didn't believe it) and Nacho. That was crazy. I also remember in between fights before the main event even Marquez looked like he was scared in the short between fight interviews. The energy was so intense.
Sergio with legs would be a big problem for Golokvin. The successes Brook had were mostly when he got off first and changed angles. That was Sergio's bread and butter, and he had far greater pop and timing than brook.
Redd Foxx is right. I think the fight would be very competitive. I think it would get to the later rounds. Golovkin's walking forward would get him in trouble with Martinez's movement, and Martinez's hands down defense in the later rounds would get him in trouble. I think a Prime Sergio would have a 50-50 chance against Golovkin.
Honestly though in the past 15 years I don't know a middleweight not named Bhop that I would pick over Golovkin outright though.....
I think you have a decent point. The problem is he does not have the timing or ring smarts of a Marquez, he won't have the benefit of having seen Pacquiao 3 times, he does not have great footwork. Anyone without good foot work cannot touch Pacquiao. You need to have good balance, and footwork to defeat Pacquiao.
I think if Pacquiao employs a similar game plan to what he used with De La Hoya then it should be an easy night.
I do think Vargas will have his moments, he is a good fighter. I also think that Vargas is a true warrior, and I actually like him with his new trainer. The issue is that he just doesn't have the timing or athleticism to compete with even this version of Pacquiao. I am hoping for a good even fight as those are my favorites but I just don't see it. I think the best fight at welterweight for Pacquiao is Thurman. Thurman has good footwork, balance, power, and timing (weakish chin so knockout in that fight for either is possible).
Agreed, taking a fight on an Canelo undercard is actually a great career move. Specially fighting a good, exciting, though limited fighter in Rosado. Its a win-win. The whole time during the telecast they keep mentioning Rosado is never in a dull fight.....BJS would get the same type of respect and probably would have a nice KO reel of King Rosado. What a shame they don't think like true businessmen. That's why there are so few Pacquiaos, Money Mays, De La Hoyas, Tysons despite many of these fighters are very skilled. Great point you made!
Golovkin slightly has the higher percentage but Kovalev knocked out better opposition than Golovkin
also it seems Kovalev can hurt people more with single punches than Golovkin
so I'm going with Kovalev
Agreed. I think Golovkin is the better technician, but it is very close.
I think King Kong wins this, but I think Wilder still could pull of a win. This is one of my dream matches right now. Two knockout punchers at heavy, someone is going to sleep that night.:boxing:
I think Fury is the most technically sound when he knows he's fighting a threat (he seems to fight at the level of his competition). He also showed tremendous discipline in the Wlad fight.
I also think Ortiz is a standout as he has great technique, and power to back it up. I have a feeling though anyone who can take him into deep water will make the Real King Kong tired, and he might gas.
Wilder I think is a vulnerable champion but his tremendous power and decent chin will keep him in the mix (not to mention his awesome corner). That type of power helps you, with it you can make far more mistakes.
I have not seen much of Joshua, but until he fights some ranked fighters we won't know his true level. I'd love to see Joshua with Adamek, or Spzilka.
it started with a few of them acting like spys for Diego Chaves and telling Chaves about Rios arm injury but then it kind of grew out of that cause Robert kicked a few out and then Cuellar that dude Robert made a champion wife got invovled and she started coming to the gym playing the Monica Bradley role, she used to write down at the time stamp robert himself spent with Cuellar etc and one day Cuellar never showed up and started going to another gym and wanted to take a few of robert helpers with him but they wouldent leave without robert permission and robert told em go ahead make that money. Thats why a few familiar faces arent at RGBA anymore, and basically all the Argentia team just up and left, Lucas nephew is not there anymore, maidana bros is not there anymore, cuellar not there anymore, None of the argentia team is there.
Wow....Did not know that. Stupidity.....
Robert Garcia got the entire new wave of boxing under him!
Saul Rodriquez, Tanjera, Navvaro, Egis, The Nail (some bad ass russian), cuedras, etc etc.
Robert is doing just fine.
and he still has Rios, Mickey, Chavez jr, Josesito Lopez, Maybe Maidana (maidana might go else where when and if he returns cause of the whoe RGBA vs Argentenia beef
What is the RGBA vs. Argentina beef?
A pro boxer with the ability using steroids is blatantly unfair, even with Paulie on it it'd mean he'd be able to last longer...
Train harder (steroids promote quick recorvery) in the gym thus giving him more benefits of being ready for a fight
Just because its not going to make him into a jackhammer puncher doesn't mean that he wouldn't be able to beat guys that he normally wouldn't of, he is likely going to be able to put an unrealistic pace on a fight and hold it through a longer pace than any other guy and he'd also have the strength advantage aswell these all play into the disadvantage of a guy who isn't on the juice.
I am against the use of PEDs in all sports. Just pointing out that many more boxers are on the drugs than we think. Also the drug problem goes way back into at least the mid 1950's. I wish that we could test for all of these drugs, year round but we can't, and we don't. I am just pointing out that Marquez is not the only culprit. I believe that most of the top fighters are on some sort of PED, or have at least used it at some point. You also have to consider the use of peptides which are not illegal, nor tested for but provide an unfair advantage.
I believe that a way of taking drugs away from the sport is olympic drug testing the top 10 guys in each weight class in the sport year round under the same testing regiment. That way if anyone is in the rankings to get a title shot they will get tested. But even so there are still ways to beat the system with guys like Heredia, Conte, Ariza, and the hundreds of others that operate namelessly.
Human Growth Hormone was very expensive in the past. It used to be extracted from cadavers, and was in widespread use during the 80's. It is now synthetic, and much cheaper. It is also almost impossible to detect. Furthermore one can see benefits even years after use.
Steroids were developed in the 40's by the Soviets, and in America in the late 40's. One thing to remember is that steroids were legal up until the late 80's/90's in the US. Steroids in certain situations are technically legal in many countries still. Steroids have been used by boxers since well before the 70's. They also reap benefits after the drugs have left the system. Most athletes will cycle their drugs to beat drug tests. Different types of anabolics last different amounts of time in the system (12 hours to 1 month).
I also agree that in ALL sports skills trumps muscles. People don't understand that the best peds, and combinations of peds can only increase your attributes by 5-30% of your overall ability. A Paulie Malignaggi using all of the steroids under the sun would never become a KO puncher. Musculo-skeletal structure determines power. Generating power from pivoting motions in the body is what generates power so the length, girth, density of the bone and the muscle type is what truly determines KO power. Still it is something that many competitive athletes are taking.
Evander was recently (within the past 5 years) implicated in a Florida steroid/hgh pharmacy scandal so he might have amazing genetics (I know he does), but he has also been used peds. I believe most of the top athletes are using the drugs. Marquez gets a lot of negativity about it since he just began taking them but many of his opponents have taken them for even longer..... Most athletes in all sports are taking them.
Keep in mind that steroids/ hgh/ epo do different things, and have different effects. They also can have negative performance effects.
Manny wins this in a rough fight in my opinion. Manny tko's Matthysse late I think. A smaller opponent who is not a great mover or a great technician will be taken out even by this version of Pac.
The issue is does Manny have problems going down in weight? If I were his team I would not consider going down in weight as it adds too many variables.
Another interesting piece is how Molina's body size and shape/height/reach were what helped him set up those knockdowns. Manny is closer to Lucas's size so that is also an interesting part of this potential fight.
Here are some recent ones:
Marquez v. Pacquiao 3, Forrest v. Mosley, Fury v. Klitschko, Lomachenko v. Walters (his last 3 fights are masterpieces), Rigondeaux v. Donaire, Morales v. Maidana, Morales v. Garcia 1, Ortiz v. Jennings, Herrera v. Garcia, Mayweather v. Pacquiao (Guerrero, Márquez, Berto, Maidana 2), Etc...
I think Pacquiao takes both of them, and makes it look easy. I am not convinced that Danny gets through Vargas....(I had Danny in the Thurman fight and lost some $$ on it).
Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. What I meant by semi-defensive is that they were not fast footed all offensive fighters like Pacquiao or Haye (these types of fighters can definately be beat by heavy punching counter punchers).
I would consider Marquez as at least slow on his feet so any fight with him in which he beat a mover would be interesting to see. But he lost all of the fights against anyone who had high mobility (Mayweather, Bradley (though I believe this fight was a lot closer than many).
My opinion is that unless you set up lots of traps and can land nice combos, or have one punch KO power a flat footed fighter will lose these fights 9 of 10 times. The only exception is when a fast footed fighter comes to the slow footed fighter often like Pacquiao did against Marquez. Pacquiao could have literally pot shotted Marquez and danced around pulling off what Thurman did against Garcia on rounds 8-12 and would have had an easy night.
Still I wanted to expand my horizons if you will with any footage that shows some sort of potential blueprint for handling these types of fighters.
I wonder in these situations if you should focus on the body, make it rough on the inside and put a lot of work in early (sounds a lot easier than it is to do) to try to slow the fighter down and make something big happen in the later rounds. How does an effective fighter cut off the ring (Duran, Chavez Sr. come to mind) on these fighters?
What is a proper game plan in your minds? I can't come up with one barring a miracle or a legendary chin in which you can impose you will. Maidana v. Mayweather 1 comes to mind (I believe that fight was close as well, I think a decent case can be made for that fight being a draw). But this version of Maidana was huge compared to Money, had above average power and he has a solid chin (only ever showed weakness to the body imho).
I noticed the same thing. Bellew didn't have enough pop or accuracy to hurt Haye.
Cotto had the power, and the accuracy to punish Martinez.
To play devil's advocate Martinez couldn't move side to side, or move much at all thats why he wore the xxxl shorts. At least Haye had one good leg, and could move side to side (his achiles is torn but we don't know to which extent). With a knee injury like Martinez any movement is hard, and he couldn't feel anything on his messed up knee. Without getting any feedback from his knee his balance was messed up more than Haye's was after his injury.
Cotto>Bellew in terms of power+accuracy at the weight classes they fought at their highest weight (160lbs, heavy respectably) and its not even close. Cotto is a hall of famer...enough said