Pork_Chop

Pacquiao demanded $10mil per pound if Floyd weighs over the limit..and you people wanna claim that it's because Floyd had a history of doing that right?.. Well didn't Pacquiao demand DLH $1mil per pound if he weighed over also?..did he also have a history of that??.. I'm sorry i don't understand this argument... Weights are a typical part of fight negotiations should pac be just like corrales, who walked away from a fight he trained hard for and money he was prepared to earn, only to have the guilty party hit with a fine that never tops 6 figures? i just don't get the hate instead of requesting extra testing, if PBF had asked for x-millions of dollars if Pac was found to have failed a drug test; ensuring his ability to walk away from a fight with a "dirty" fighter and not put his health at risk, i don't think anybody would be saying sh!t. because in that case, you're talking about repercussions if someone's found to have done something wrong. in the current case, there's no proof that pac's done anything wrong, but he's being asked to suffer (ie through tests he obviously isn't comfortable with). there's a fundamental difference in logic there. one is "he's guilty because I think so, so he must suffer" the other is "he's guilty because we proved he did something wrong, now make him pay" i guess the flomos will just say i'm a pactard but this is really getting silly.

Usually..fights are done in weight classes..there's been very very few catch weight fights..which I personally hate..but it's not a typical negotiation.. well there's a flaw in your logic. all fights have an agreed upon weight, whether that's a catch weight fight, or a standard fight in a weight class (even heavyweight, with >201, <265). You don't make that agreed upon weight, you're either going to be fined & still fight (the lighter fighter being at the disadvantage), or the lighter fighter balks at the fight (and is typically not paid). The rest of your post has very little or no relation to my post; as testing to see if someone is guilty of something wrong is not the same as repercussions for someone who has done something wrong. as a side note in high school i got woozy and almost passed out after giving 2 vials of blood, it wrecked me. the problem kinda went away in college after i had to give plasma for some much needed cash a bunch of times. kinda see where he's coming from; being woozy, weak, and lethargic when you're supposed to be training for the biggest fight of your career ain't really fair.... especially if you know your opponent is gonna be shooting his hands up with numbing drugs that are illegal in 49 states regardless.

Let me guess..you were fucked for 29 days straight too right?..hence Pacquiao asking for 30 days to be sure and clear of any wooziness?.. Have you ever fought before? The second to last week before a fight, in a lot of gyms, is called hell week. it's the week where you do the hardest training. if you're woozy for even 2 days in hell week (let alone the day to go get the tests done), your training isn't going to be ideal. and as for the weights..of course those are agreed upon..especially title fights..but most fights are within a weightclass limit that already exist..not their own..Mayweather came in 2lbs over and paid his fine..cool..but $10mil per pound isn't a little overboard?.. apparently pac wants to be paid for his training time because roach has already stated many times that they will not continue with the fights against fighters who don't make weight. You know what Olympic-Style testing is for?..to make sure they're both going in on equal terms with no doubt or suspicion when one beats the other..and may look incredible doing it.. they both clear their names..are obviously clean..and the best man wins...simple.. I'm pretty sure this fight's going to go down before year's end, unless floyd tearfully retires before then (again); so it's really not *that* huge a deal. I'm sure by then pac will be smiling in 24/7 footage of having blood drawn randomly every couple days and everyone will be on their way to banking huge $$. I guess that's the thing that gets me the most about this whole issue. This type of crud has gone on before, like Tyson getting licensed, in the end money's a big talker and allowances get made. In this instance the money for Cowboys stadium is probably too big for Arum to pass up and GBP threw that off the table immediately.

So Pacquiao is the only person in the world who can't go thru this?? no, it just happens to hamper him more than other folks ..Mayweather will also be getting tested during this so called "hell week"..and a handful of other boxers and boxing experts said they would also take the tests if asked to.. well obviously it doesn't affect them the same way. this isn't a contest to see who can perform the best after giving blood, this is a fight and both fighters should be coming in at their best. it'd be like if floyd were diabetic and manny was trying to mandate an ice cream sunday 2 weeks before the fight. kind of a d!ck move to mess with someone's training. Tha'ts fair..but $10mil is a stretch..to be honest..it seems as if they put that number out there hoping Mayweather would say HELL NO..but he simply said.."ok" just like Pacquiao should have... well he could've said "ok" at the question "how about 24 days?" so this is a straw man I can see you're not a big Floyd fan by this part..but I'm not either to be honest..I just call it how I see it..and all this drama could have been avoided if Pacquiao would have just cleared his name..and not let Arum and Roach scramble for excuses for him..Mayweather sr wasn't the first person to have an opinion about Pacquiao and Steroids..it's just that he's famous enough to make a big buzz out of it.. I agree with you i just have this sneaking suspicion that arum called the shots, let the fight drop because he knew there was money in Dallas, and doesn't give 2 sh!ts about Pac's rep. I mean Pac wants to go into politics, you would think he would want to look like a stand up guy for that no? Truth is..we're in an era where steroids isn't such a big surprise..and I don't see random blood testing in any sport as a bad thing..it's part of life to have blood drawn..but if you're willing to walk away from $30mil and the world suspecting you're dirty..I gotta admit..it doesn't look good for Pacquiao.. agree with you on the first part but i don't think they're that big a deal life really isn't fair there's no such thing as a "level playing field" some people have good genetics some don't some people have great support structures a lot don't some people have awesome coaches most don't the olympics is a crazy situation there are things on the banned supplement list that are completely legal in almost any country, yet if one turns up in a drug test, the athlete loses their once in a lifetime chance. in the end, testing is only going to remove those who don't know how to beat the test those who really want to are going to do what it takes to beat the test no test is unbeatable i think that's roach's argument "a clean blood test is no guarantee of anything, so why are you trying to take training time away from my fighter before the biggest fight of his career?"

At the end of the day Pac needed 24 Days to recover from a blood test. Unacceptable. no, merely Pac needed as much time as possible to train in the last 20 (24 minus the 4 days to recover as per Roach) days before the fight.

Pacquiao was filming Wapakman during the last 20 days of his previous fight..a 5-min procedure of withdrawing some drops of blood wouldn't be anymore distracting then being a high flying superhero in tights.. http://liveforfilms.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/wapak-man-small.jpg so he wasn't in the gym at all during those 20 days? or even this: he was out of the gym for around 4 days during those 20? because that's how long Roach says it takes for him to recover, which is not the same as going to do a movie shoot for an hour or two after your gym session.

I went to bed the other night thinking that Funeka won. I just happened to look at boxrec today coz I'd forgotten Funeka's name and was talking to someone about the fight. I was SHOCKED to see that fight was a draw. That was the clearest demonstration of an azzwhooping I've ever seen. Guzman did NOT win any round after the second. He had a few rounds where he actually tried to fight back instead of just getting dominated by the jab, but no way i'd say he won any of those rounds. You can't get noticeably rocked that many times in a fight without doing any noticeable damage to the other guy and still pull a draw, sorry. I'm in the robbery camp.

hell i would just find something that im comfortable with,like for me boxing is and it keeps my head off of shit. in the past it woulda been boxing & kickboxing- that's where all my friends hung out, that was my social outlet. out here, it just ain't the same. there are a couple cool guys at the gym, but they're not my boys that i used to run with all the time. if i throw myself into boxing fulltime lately, i start feeling more n more isolated, lonely, and insane. so i'm finding stuff to get me through, but boxing's not really the centerpiece that it once was. as far as confidence goes, i've never really had that kind of floyd mayweather, "dominate the world" type confidence- mine's more like mayorga or duran: "win or lose I'm going to hurt you". I have no problem bringing that up after I get hit a few times. My problem is keeping my head straight long enough to stay consistent in the gym.

I definitely know where you're coming from vers... Growin up my folks treated my younger brother like a golden child, they went to all his basketball games, they got to know all his friends, almost anything he did they supported it fully, hell they acted like he was "cool"- my mom would gush over anything he did. I was the older brother and I was good at school. The only time they ever noticed me was when I was causing trouble. My brother used to blame me for everything to the point of my dad kickin my ass on a pretty regular basis. Gave me a real complex that I was a bad person, folks never let me build up that big brother confidence. My folks have never really supported me in anything I've done. i went to college in a podunk town, studying a major that was way hard, just for their approval - because that's what they wanted me to do, and I've spent most of my adult life regretting it. Sometimes you gotta do without. In my case, I usually supplant them with close friends. Lost most of my close friends by moving out here to Texas to get married. Unfortunately, my ex-fiancee was my closest friend, the only one i had left, and she damn near killed me in 2006 by lying, cheating, stealing, and blaming it all on me. My boxing/fighting interests are kind of on the backburner now. I'm going back to the drawing board and re-figuring out what I want to do with my life. Had to go out and get a social life too; boxing is a pretty lonely sport (for me in Texas at least) & the isolation was really pushing me over the edge. That's not to say I'm not boxing, I'm just not making it the center of my life. I gotta figure out what makes me happy and use it to keep me on track for boxing. An actual decent chick would help out real nice but the kind of girls i like are few and far between here in Texas. I think you gotta figure out what keeps you happy, confident, and content- then use that to fuel yourself in boxing. If it's a girl, if it's a trainer you've clicked with, if it's a younger brother/sister who looks up to you, whatever it is- fight for it.

I like the analogy that boxing's an epic drama where mma's an action flick. For me, a lot of times the sheer nature of MMA means that it's not going to promote slick standup- a quick bumrush tackle will get by that KO shot a good 50% of the time and then you get a ground n pound snoozefest. The sloppy stand up- due to the fear of takedowns, usually makes it unwatchable for me. For my money I'd rather watch something like Burmese lethwei, muay thai, or san shou which are like mma without the ground work. I like doing grappling, but even my friends that are good at it, can't watch it without yawning. What was that Heather Graham show where they called BJJ "the gayest thing ever"? I think most of all I hate the attitude of MMA guys: that they know the ultimate truth in everything because of their sport... that they can tell you what's what on any fight sport, when they only know 2 or 3 champs... that their 1 hour of stand up training every week puts them on the level of a fulltime muay thai or boxing guy... that acting like a jerk, alpha male with the hatebreed and Tapout shirts is the way a fighter should act... I swear, the next time one of those board short & rashguard wearing fools tries to convince me of the superiority of the gracie method in my BOXING GYM; I'm a pop him inna da mouf.

The only sport where death is an aspect of the sport? Look at racecar driving like Nascar or Formula 1- 2 of the biggest names ever died in races: dale earnhart & ayrton senna. Football's had at least a few deaths- yeah more from taking ephedrine before practise in hot weather, but plenty of guys with permanent paralysis. Even basketball's has had it's fair share of heart failures. Fight sports like boxing are consentual & supervised, which means that it's not on par with a mugging or a streetfight. Don't even start with extreme sports & past-times like bungee jumping or skydiving. Most athletes know there is a long-term cumulative effect to the rigors they put their body through; they know there's a risk that they're not going to be okay. That's part of life. You wake up in the morning and go out the door, knowing you could be hit by a bus. I would say that boxing has the most ecstacy & agony of any sport. Fight sports are the purest form of athletic competition going back to the dawn of time but made as safe as reasonable with modern safety equipment, rules, and supervision. If you wanna see brutal, go watch some Lethwei - bareknuckle Burmese kickboxing with throws, there are 2 refs and often that's not enough- makes a lot of MMA look tame and boring. When I got dumped this summer I went through this phase where I thought fight sports were the most pointless activities in the world. I believe that's how a lot of women look at it. Eventually I got my ballz back and realized the benefits of the discipline and harnessing all that testosterone in a relatively healthy manner.

The list is ridiculous. Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Jimmy Young, Jerry Quarrey, Sandy Saddler, I mean it's really just a part of the game. Boxing is beauty and it is art, but should such a price be commensurate with art and beauty? Yeah, but explain Moore and LaMotta or how Floyd Patterson showed nothing until a year or two before his death. I would definitely say that the guys who suffered serious injury or death in boxing weren't done in by a single punch, they fought on when they were hurt and in doing so knew the risks they were taking.

Dog, Floyd Patterson suffered terribly up until his death with memory loss. Don't you remember the grand jury testimonies that forced him to resign as NY Boxing Commissioner? He couldn't remember who he fought for the title, how long title fights were, anything like that. He was another reason why I have quarrels with boxing as an institution. I believe he was 60 or 61 at the time he got hit real bad by the alzheimers and pugilistic dementia. Prior to that I read that he didn't show many signs. How many people have their heart explode or die from complications of an unhealthy diet or get taken by cancer in their 50s? I think he had a pretty long and productive life, even if those last 8 to 10 years weren't good. Even if you drop Patterson as an argument, there are plenty of others with more fights than that that came out of boxing with their health reasonably intact. And if the dementia doesn't hit until the 60s, exactly how much are they missing?

man pac spars hard... i mean for his style I guess he needs to spar that way... i don't think i'd want to have to deal with that as his partner day in and day out... more like a smoker fight than a sparring session...

I honestly think most boxers are too worried about the actual fight to worry about that stuff; but that type of stuff and "who comes out first" or "who's on which side in the promo picture" makes for good drama for the casual fan.

ah, so they ARE testing on the presence of a chemical and not just testing on Test levels. One would think ultimately it's more important that Test levels be in a normal, healthy human range instead of just catching anyone who tests positive for a particular chemical. That's not to say Toney's Test levels were normal at the time. EDIT- Low test levels mean that you don't recover from gym workouts in a timely fashion, that you don't gain & maintain muscle & strength like a normal person. Hormones are a tricky thing. I've messed around with Tribulus and other pro hormones. I can definitely say there's a huge difference between low Test levels and being at the higher end of normal (but not illegal).

surprised nobody's mentioned it yet... Redbone

I trained with Roger, Ray's brother and a fixture in Ray's training camps back in the day. Ray Leonard's gym in Landover Maryland's a pretty popular gym as far as the east coast goes- they host DC events & Maryland golden gloves championships there. From what I know, neither Leonard brother does much of the actual training in their gym. I haven't seen all *that* much of Manfredo since being with Roach- didn't see the Pemberton fight. Skill wise, if he picks up anything from Leonard it'll be fighting "cute" and occasionally a big flurry - not sure that's what he needs at this point of his development. Then again, Leonard may just help him achieve that champion mindset of rising to any challenge.

Thanks a ton for the advice, it really helps alot. Definitely follow the advice of the guy with the Spider Jerusalem avatar. :) If I could write, I think it'd be fun to be a boxing writer some day. The owner of my gym used to write a little website from Mexico City when he lived down there. Maybe I'll ask him for tips.

Considering the fact that boxing is one of the few sports that has weight limits involved. Why would anyone waste money studying a situation that should be pretty obvious? well the fact that they did worse than wrestlers is pretty telling. also in regards to the earlier question about "the last time so and so fought" - all of those guys (except Tyson) were pretty bloated within months of their most recent fight. Before Pac-Morales II didn't Erik drop something like 50lbs?

Nah, I only read mangas. http://images18.fotki.com/v17/photos/1/178468/4078406/transmet95b-vi.jpg http://images1.fotki.com/v333/photos/1/178468/3732758/transmet92b-vi.jpg http://images17.fotki.com/v324/photos/1/178468/3732758/transmet91a-vi.jpg http://images17.fotki.com/v13/photos/1/178468/3637296/transmet86a-vi.jpg

pac's my favorite fighter i've been somewhat of a floyd hater for a while that being said, this has the possibility to be a great fight. my heart roots for mosely my head says mayweather - not because ssm's too old or any of these other excuses, but because as much as i dislike his personality, mayweather's got legit skills. props to mayweather for stepping up to take this fight.

wlad's fought some pretty decent fighters recently in brock, bird, and peter. yeah, they may not be world beaters at this stage in their respective careers, but i would not fault the guy for indulging himself in an ego-stroking destruction of a shot sanders before making a 3 or 4 fight run on unification. say he fights sanders in the next 5 months and then shoots for the easiest of the alphabet holders before the end of 2007. After that he goes after the next easiest alphabelt, and maybe a rematch with brewster before capturing the last belt- assuming none of the other belts are unified before then. at 6 months a fight, 5 fights is still only 2.5 years and wlad should have at least 3 or 4 left in him.

People may feel some pain when punching, but it shouldn't be anything horrific, when wearing gloves, and having hand-wraps. :ugh1: actually... taken from "the straight dope" (www.straightdope.com) in regards to the truth of the famous story of the mom lifting the car off the kid... From Ikai and Steinhaus, "Some Factors Modifying the Expression of Human Strength," Journal of Applied Physiology, 1961, .... ...the authors suggest that the normal human inability to exert oneself to one's physiological maximum is the result of "acquired inhibitions that in turn are subject to disinhibition by pure Pavlovian procedures, by anesthetization of inhibitory mechanisms, or by pharmacologically induced symptoms serving as stimuli for disinhibition." In other words, you're always capable of great feats; it just takes a crisis for you to actually perform them. The same goes for punching humans can punch hard enough to shatter our own bones we just usually don't because of the bio feedback (pain) upon impact when you anesthetize, you remove this. so yah, punching under anesthetized conditions means you're going to hit a lot harder.

I dont understand how he can become so fat. Even I'm not that fat and I only go to the gym like 3 times a week. they did a study one year after the olympics and found that boxers pack on the most weight offseason when not in training. look at eric morales, roberto duran, tyson, and naseem hamed for clear examples of this.

My mother used to say "Ryan, don't trust anybody! Except for boxing scribes who use Spider Jerusalem images as representive graphics on Boxing forums." LOL Have you read Transmetropolitan? Not big into comics anymore, but that one's pretty cool.