NEETzschean

Parker and Rivas has never been stopped and knocking out Wilder twice doesn’t mean much it just means he probably should have been stopped 3 times instead of 2 ,he almost was in the last one in the first fight wobbled badly . Parker ,Wach and Chisora are not easy opponents to stop . Helenius on record has a win over Chisora not sure why that’s relevant either . A.J also defeated Klitschko who is better then Wilder you are reaching using other opponents. Your reply is very incoherent. For a start, you say that Parker and Rivas have never been stopped (true) but then say that stopping Wilder "doesn't mean much", even though Wilder had never been stopped either. Taking Fury and Whyte out of the equation, Wilder has still fought more dangerous opposition than Parker and vastly more dangerous opposition than Rivas, so the fact that Wilder had never been stopped proved a lot about his toughness/heart/defence etc. A post-Whyte Dave Allen got stopped by Ortiz in 7, Yoka in 10 and David Price after 10 A pre-Whyte Helenius got KO'd by Duhaupas in 6 and a post-Whyte Helenius got KO'd by Washington in 8 A pre-Whyte Wach got stopped by Bakole in 8 and a post-Whyte Wach got dropped and stopped by Makhmudov in 6 Short bridgerweight Rivas has fought one other opponent of note in his career: relatively light puncher Jennings, so we don't know how tough he is Chisora is a tough fighter but far less shopworn versions were dropped multiple times and stopped by Haye in 5 and retired by Fury in 10 Parker is a tough fighter but he has since been dropped inside the first 10 seconds of a fight by Chisora If Whyte was a prolific puncher with his aggressive style, he would be stopping at least half of these guys. AJ defeated a 17 month older, 17 month inactive, schooled in his last fight, winless in 2 years, away from home Wlad in a life and death war. AJ went on to get battered and quit against a short light punching fat pig Ruiz and get schooled at home by light punching cruiserweight Usyk. He will probably lose the rematch to Usyk as well. So considering all of these things, AJ can't definitively be rated above Wilder at this point.

You must be talking about Sadam Ali. The guy has been stopped by 3 body shots and BS his way out of getting counted out. And it wasn't like he was fighting hall of famers or ATGs. In the real Ali era it was 15 rounds and you had to get off the canvas, none of that rolling around playing dead like a soccer player. I'm talking about the heavily hyped cultural symbol Ali who went life and death with Mildenberger, who barely ever threw a bodyshot in his life. Usyk has never been stopped on a bodyshot in reality, let alone three times. Every time he's been dropped he's got up to win. "ATG" says absolutely nothing about your ability between several eras. In Sullivan's era there were no round limits. Meaningless. 12 rounds are fought at a higher pace than 15. Rolling around on the floor = gamesmanship, playing to the referee. Usyk has a very high boxing IQ, hence he won again against a much bigger and more powerful man.

Agreed, read my post carefully. I said amatuer fighting "bares an ambivalent relationship" to professional prize fighting. This means that sometimes it tells us a lot, other times not so much... It depends on the amatuer program, the fighter, the time, etc. There is no cause and effect relationship between a great amatuer and a great professional... I would argue there is a casual relationship whereby succesful amatuer fighters do at least reasonably well as professionals... Cuban fighters usually have relatively succesful careers as professionals (for example). But as far as greatness? For every Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, is a Big John Tate... And I did not say chin was not important! I questioned your proof that a fighter that is known for having one of the best chins in boxing, was lacking. Ali took monster shots from some of the hardest hitting heavyweights in history... But you think a few knockdowns matter? No. And lets give you the benefit of the doubt and say for some magical reason Ali had a bad chin... (preposterous but devil's advocate) Usyk is going to tap that chin? That to you would be the way Usyk beats Ali? Think about it. It's just a lot of waffle. Count how many Olympic medallists are in the top 8: https://www.heavyweightboxing.com/rankings The only ones who aren't (Fury and Anderson) turned pro very early relatively speaking and were good youth amateurs themselves. Mildenberger being "German LHW champion" as an amateur is objectively far inferior to Usyk's Olympic and World Championship gold. His 64 amateur fights is far inferior pedigree to Usyk's 350 + 6 WSB. His European title is far inferior to Usyk's undisputed world cruiser and unified heavy world titles. That's before we go into the fact that athletes in all sports have improved over the last 50-60 years and Usyk was studied Ali extensively. It's a mismatch. I also question whether Liston and Foreman, small heavyweights by todays standards, were big punchers in modern terms. Further, the more mature, heavier Ali had a better chin than younger Ali (Ali was never dropped at 30+, whereas he was KO'd in the amateurs and dropped a few times earlier in his pro career). I expect that Usyk would either beat Ali by wide/shutout UD or a late fatigue-based stoppage.

Any other era? I'm fairly certain Usyk beats Corbett, Braddock, Schmeling, Carnera. Would be very competitive versus Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Charles, Walcott, Marciano. Not too sure about Holmes, Frazier, Holyfield. And he's not beating Ali. The massively overrated Ali would have virtually no chance against Usyk if we're objective, which 80-90% of boxing fans are not. 1966 Ali vs 2018 Usyk Ali: 24 years old, started boxing at age 12, 88 confirmed amateur bouts with a record of 80-8 (3 rounders, 247 rounds max), 25 pro (144 rounds contested), stopped 9 pro opponents who were 197+ lbs Usyk: 31 years old, started boxing at age 15, 350 amateur bouts with a record of 335-15 (3-4 rounders, 1076-1332 rounds max), 6 WSB (25 rounds contested), 14 pro (105 rounds contested), stopped 11 WSB/pro opponents who were 197+ lbs (pre-rehydration) Ali had been knocked down from head shots twice in the previous 15 fights/4.5 years (Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper), was almost exclusively a head hunter, hadn’t fought a southpaw in 6 years, had lost to at least two southpaws in the amateurs (Kent Green by TKO2, Amos Johnson by SD3), 2013 Usyk was heavier than 28/33 of Ali’s pre-Mathis opponents (Ali himself was very big for his era) and as much as 9 lbs heavier than 1966 Ali, who had gone the distance with 5 of his 25 pro opponents (17-9-1 186 lbs Hunsaker, 15-11-1 225 lbs Sabedong, 18-7 189 lbs Johnson, 23-3-1 188 lbs Jones, 34-11-2 216 lbs Chuvalo), whereas Usyk (the best southpaw heavyweight of all time) hasn’t been stopped or dropped with a headshot in a combined total of 377 fights, amateur and pro and has an IQ which is almost certainly at least two standard deviations above Ali’s (78). 1966 Ali had a highly competitive fight with 49-2-3 European champion southpaw Mildenberger over 11.5 rounds (Ali admitted that he found Mildenberger’s stance and boxing ability very difficult to deal with), who was billed as being 6’1.5 with a 73 inch reach and 195 lbs (4-3-1 in non-KD rounds according to two of the three judges, 154-144 punches landed out of 612-538 thrown according to Compubox; by contrast Usyk outlanded the 6’2, 79.5 inch reach, 198 lbs, undefeated American Olympian Hunter 321-190, throwing 905-794 over 12 rounds). Mildenberger had been KO’d twice (once in the 1st round by 30-12-2, 201 lbs Dick Richardson, who had 2 stoppage wins in his previous 9 fights) and dropped numerous times in 54 pro fights, registered a 31% KO ratio with 0 KO’s in his previous 5 fights and had a 52-12 amateur record, with winning the German LHW championship being his best amateur accomplishment. A more skilled, mature, durable and experienced 1973 Ali lost by a wide margin (117-112 Boxrec consensus, 233-171 punches landed according to Compubox) to Ken Norton: a suspect-chinned boxer with a padded 29-1 record and only 8 years of boxing experience since his amateur debut, who took up boxing in his early 20’s and had never been in a 12 rounder prior to facing Ali. Usyk has studied Ali extensively, sparred and beaten many opponents influenced by him and has modern advantages in terms of training and "nutrition", as well as a tougher upbringing being from a working-class family in post-Soviet Ukraine, with a modern Eastern European style that Ali never experienced (the old Soviet school was limited to the amateurs in those days). Ali’s objective chance = sub-5%.

Holyfield on a fight with Usyk …. “It would have difficult “ When each individual fights their fight, they probably could win. What comes with the little guy – quick hands, good movement. What comes with the big guy – strong and big punches. So, it’s whoever fights their fight.” If you don’t land no big shots, then the little guy is going to outpoint you – and plus, he’s got power.” I remember seeing him say he’d favor Usyk because movers caused him more difficulty . ​ Indeed. Holyfield said about Usyk: "Usyk would have probably beat me in his era" From such an egotistical fighter this is a huge admission. Holyfield said he would have "tore up Joe Louis, because fighters get better over time". Holyfield had problems with southpaws and movers but that's not unusual at all. What's unusual is Holyfield fought guys who had stylistic advantages over him, even when he was in his 40's.

ah the promise that someday he will start fighting good opponents...never materialized but they still got your money. mission accomplished. they went with the "look how many bums he ko's" career plan instead of the "look how many good fighters he beat" career plan. just a different way of doing things i suppose He was fighting lower level opponents for his first 25 fights, middling opposition for 14 after that and excellent opposition for 6 fights after that. Wilder was thrown in the deep end from 2018 on. If Wilder KO's Ruiz and Fury beats Usyk, Wilder will probably go down as the 3rd most accomplished heavyweight of the last 20 years.

whats on his resume for you to say that? title defenses against unranked bums? lets see fury, joshua, usyk, ruiz are all more accomplished than wilder right now so thats 4 active fighters. you can argue joyce and whyte as well are on par with him when it comes to resume. guys like wlad, vitali, povetkin, etc..are more accomplished. yeah i dont know maybe he gets in the top 10 if hes lucky but avoiding good fighters and figthing tomato cans instead should be frowned upon, not praised imo. his actual resume is mediocre at best so if there are close fighters wtih him, i will give the edge to the guys who actually took risks and not fantasy wilder "who actually took risks" Fury x3 and undefeated Ortiz were considerable risks. Stiverne 1 was close to even odds at the time, Wilder had never been past 4 rounds and he schooled him. Only Fury and Wlad are clearly more accomplished at heavyweight right now. If Usyk gets beaten by Fury then suddenly he will look a lot less impressive, as will Joshua by extension, as will Ruiz by extension. Vitali's resume is weaker than Wilder's and non-titlist Povetkin's team avoided Ortiz according to his own manager.

except its not. vitali doesnt even have a great resume but its clearly better than wilders. we can break it down if you'd like but wilder has only beaten 2 top 10 fighters. vitali beat at least 5 or 6, i have the stats on another thread. you see when you say things that dont make sense, it damages your credibility and you fall into the fanboy category where you constantly use confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, logical fallacies, etc...to try and prove your points but they will never make sense because they arent based on anything reasonable or substantial. just say you like wilder and you think he ko's everyone. thats fine, i cant disprove that. all i can prove is that hes been fed a steady diet of bums and his resumse isnt very good. you cant really argue against that so why try? in fantasy land wilder might be great, but i operate in reality "but wilder has only beaten 2 top 10 fighters. vitali beat at least 5 or 6" Smoke and mirrors. Vitali beat no one of note and if the likes of Kevin Johnson had top 10 rankings it only goes to underline the idea that the Klitschko era was weaker. Vitali beat no one as good as Ortiz, didn't get a result against anyone remotely on Fury's level, he quit against a LHW, lost to Lewis, who McCall and Rahman put away. And Wilder is an active fighter who can still add more, Vitali's been retired for 10+ years.

None of this right . Joshua wasn’t a bigger pay over Klitchko he didn’t even have a title when Wilder won his and only had about 14/15 fights ? Klitchko would have been an undisputed fight , Joshua wasn’t even a U.K formal champion he wasn’t a world champion and not even close to Wlads status in 2015 . Joshua was never available in this time frame so stating Wlad picked Joshua bc of money isn’t reality . The odds were 2/1 in the Joshua vs Klitchko fight no one was a big favorite and many people were picking klitchko only when Joshua won he then became old as boxing scenes predictability once again surfaces afterward of any Joshua win you’ll see a list of excuses why he won . Lol You ended the out right wrong post by further damaging yourself . Wilders resume is better ? Really ? :alcoholic If Fury fights Usyk that means it’s the first real fight he’s unsure of winning in many years you just projected fantasy of what posters might say because that’s all you got . The fact is Usyk would be his best win but since he hasn’t fought him you just come up with excuses as to why bother fighting him like many detractors on here . You even compared certain fights on Wilders resume performance wise to state he has a better resume ? How does that work isn’t resume based on overall opposition not what one looked like in a particular fight ? If we still went on that he doesn’t have a better resume bc he has fought the lower tier guys overall . lol And put an insult as losing to ( someone like him ) Ruiz is bad when Ruiz has a win over Wilders best win and lost every rnd in the rematch when 90% of posters said Joshua couldn’t out box Ruiz they claimed he ran for 12 rounds and further imply Wilder MAY flatten him but hasn’t right ? Come on man make it make sense at least talk about what actually happened not what ifs . :rofl: Look at Joshua's purses in 2016 and compare them to Wilder's. He was a far more lucrative opponent for Wlad. Joshua was a -275 favourite or thereabouts. Joshua-Wlad was seen as a 70-30 fight in Joshua's favour. A very good win for sure but Joshua's career has been downhill ever since. By your logic Chisora has the best resume, it doesn't matter that he's lost. Joshua has an inferior resume to Wilder in my view because: 1. Wilder's got a draw with Fury + 30-0 Ortiz > Wlad and Povetkin 2. Joshua's got 3 losses to two different fighters (one being a 25-1 Ruiz), Wilder's got 2 losses against one, who is regarded as the best in the division and a clear favourite over Usyk You can make a counterargument based on Joshua beating Whyte, Takam etc. but this is meaningless in my opinion as they are levels below the top, like Stiverne and Duhaupas were. Ruiz narrowly and controversially decisioned a 43 year old Ortiz who Wilder had KO'd twice in the previous 4.5 years. Amazing. The teams of Fury, Wilder and Zhang are all claiming that Ruiz is demanding too much money, pricing himself out and he's been dropping in the rankings of several bodies. It remains a disgraceful loss for Joshua.

wilder didnt want to fight klitschko. Finkel said to the Tuscaloosa News. “It's not the right thing yet. Give him a couple of fights, maybe bring something back to Alabama. Let him develop just like any other athlete." who did wilder then fight? molina, duhapas, spilzka, arreola, washington, etc...all unranked joshua wasnt even a champ in 2015 buddy. stop with your wild false equivalencies. wilder was champ and they had no intention of making the fight as proven by those quotes and his straight out the garbage resume. joshua fought klitschko 1 year after becoming champ after fury dropped out of the rematch. what more could he have done? heres a timeline for you: fury klitschko 1: november 2015 joshua becomes champ: april 2016 fury klitschko 2 cancelled: september 2016 joshua klitschko fight: april 2017 "wilder didnt want to fight klitschko. Finkel said" Wilder ≠ Finkel. "joshua fought klitschko" 1. Joshua was a much bigger payday than Wilder, hence Charles Martin, Wlad and Joseph Parker wanted to fight him over Wilder 2. Joshua was a big favourite over Wlad, who was 41, fighting away from home and hadn't been able to lay a glove on Fury in his previous fight 17 months prior "straight out the garbage resume" I'd say it's better than Joshua's and Vitali's. The best result on their records is Wilder's draw against Fury. And Wilder never quit, let alone against someone like Andy Ruiz, who Wilder may well yet flatten. If Fury dominates Usyk then suddenly he'll be "too small" and a "blown up cruiserweight" who "struggled with Chisora".

- - A rather doltish effort. U a noob? 1. Fat Andy the only fighter out of a half dozen top 10 contenders to fight AJ in his American Debut. Those duckers prominently include Blubber and Deyonce both turning down career record purses to fight each other for peanuts. 2. Blubber currently #3 Boxrec rated behind Usyk and AJ because he's a drug cheat and ducker extraordinaire starting with the Wlad rematch. All the top 10 fighters were angling for the low hanging spoiling fruit of manufactured Deyonce. Blubber got the Deyonce call over the others because he was several years inactive whilst gorging on wh0res, pies, booze, and cocaine while blowing up to 400lbs. Looked weak as a newborn kitten in his comeback, off balance needing to hang on the rope and punching like Bambi. BoxRec: Ratings AJ unified Wlad's titles that Blubber never defended and has kept them intact all these years later while Blubber disgraces himself thinking he's gonna make a fortune fighting a near 40 yr old African MMA fighter. Whatever dude, he burnt toast beyond redemption along with Deyonce...:yeah::flowers1::yeah:​ What a lot of jibberish. Here is some reality for you: Hurdles for Joshua to overcome 1. He only regards one of his last ten fights as being one of his top five performances (the embarrassing spectacle of Ruiz 2, 2019), compared to four of his best performances in the seven fights pre-Takam (Kevin, Whyte, Martin, Wlad, 2015-2017), indicating that he regards his best days as being well in the past and that it was generally downhill post-41 year old dethroned Wlad (which is Joshua’s only marquee win) 2. 34 years old, made a huge amount of money (which is Joshua’s self-confessed primary motivation), been a media superstar since 2012 and had two title reigns over almost 5 years 3. Worries about getting brain damage, wants his legacy to be that he retired healthy, said he was “coming towards the end of my career” in January 2021 (before his losses to Usyk) and claimed that he was looking to retire at the age of “35-37”, having previously said immediately post-Ruiz 1 that he had no plans to retire before he was 38 4. 3 defeats (2 by upset) in his last 7, NOMAS7 with 4 KD’s received in his first (and thus far only) fight on away/American soil, to B-side, 6’, 270 lbs obese late sub light puncher Ruiz (the most humiliating defeat in combat sports history) 5. Back to back points defeats to B-side, 6’3, 220 lbs, ex-cruiser light puncher Usyk 6. 3 KO wins in his last 9 fights and 6+ years, against 39 year old versions of Povetkin, Pulev and Helenius and hasn’t stopped an opponent inside 6 since Molina in 2016: little confidence or desire to get stuck in, prefers to play it safe and go to points even if he is being outboxed (Usyk), if the opponent previously KO’d him (Ruiz 2) or if he’s expected to make a statement against an overmatched opponent (Franklin) 7. Hasn’t been on more than a two fight win streak in his seven fights post-Povetkin 8. By the same racial logic that Joshua applied to Eddie Chambers in 2017, Joshua has been a “bum” and a “disgrace” since 2019 9. Knew that any hope of a positive legacy evaporated the night that Ruiz manhandled and humiliated him 10. Uncertainty with and lack of confidence from his new team: a third head trainer in three consecutive fights from Usyk 1 to Franklin, with the most recent trainer James (an American; a nationality which does not generally respect Joshua’s chin/heart/ability) then failing to make his long-standing marquee welterweight Spence even competitive with his main rival Crawford, before failing to make undisputed LMW champion Charlo competitive with Canelo in an embarrassing survival mode performance. James didn’t throw the towel in even when Spence was getting battered with no chance, which would have discouraged Joshua 11. Lack of trust in his promotional company (he’s admitted that he’s a cash cow being milked, on a “lifetime deal” that he signed with Matchroom pre-Usyk 1) 12. Continues to see his résumé age horribly (Fury did a far better job on Wlad and Whyte, who were Joshua’s self-confessed 3rd and 4th “best/favourite performances” respectively) 13. Gone from hero to zero, lost a huge amount of support (much of it to sneering antagonist Fury) and respect 14. Fears (or perhaps hopes) that another defeat would end his career 15. The fighters ranked above him who he hasn’t fought (Fury, Wilder) are favoured to beat him, likely by KO, with fighters in the lower half of the top 10 also very dangerous for him 16. Knows that he probably has to beat GOAT right hand KO artist Wilder (a Fury victim who Hearn has derided for years, increasing pressure on Joshua, who is scared of Wilder) and in dominant fashion if he wants a chance to get the ultra-lucrative, ultra-status Fury fight 17. The prospect of Fury beating, even dominating Joshua’s 2x conqueror Usyk hangs over Joshua

Wilder's never shown a lack of courage in the ring so his balls can't be reasonably questioned. He's never quit as AJ did against Andy Ruiz for instance and he took more damage in the 2nd and 3rd Fury fights. Klitschko was the unbeaten in 11+ years Ring/lineal champion and P4P No.6, neither Wilder or Joshua were going near him in 2015 because their teams wouldn't allow it. Wlad was dominating contenders and considered well above the rest of the field.

wait so you are saying wlad ducked wilder now? even though wilder's own manager says he didnt want wilder to fight wlad and wilders resume for years was full of no-hopers which confirmed that he was being truthful about wanting easy fights and not rushing into big fights. wow this is crazy cognitive dissonance going on here. you think wilders resume is better than joshuas or vitalis? thats just silly buddy and you know it. be better. or be best as melanie trump says. an old wlad is better than an old ortiz wouldnt you say? thats wilders best win btw and hes not close to klitschko coming off a pitty pat loss. dont act like he was shot. we saw what fury did to wilder and he couldnt do that to klitschko which shows wilders level. the best result is a draw which should be a loss to a guy they cherry picked who looked stone cold terrible in all his fights leading up to the wilder fight? you are off the rails. wilder has beaten 2 top 10 fighters his entire career. guys like joshua and vitali have beaten far more and better quality fighters i might add. "wait so you are saying wlad ducked wilder now?" No. Learn to read. Going for Joshua for a bigger money fight doesn't mean you're ducking Wilder. "you think wilders resume is better than joshuas or vitalis?" Of course. Losses count (quitting against Ruiz, schooled x2 by Usyk, quitting against Byrd, failing against Lewis) and they have worse losses than Wilder (in Joshua's case more losses), who has a draw against Fury, which is the best result on their combined records. Wlad was 41 and coming off a schooling, 30-0 Ortiz was under 39 (younger than Joshua's victims Povetkin, Pulev and Helenius). I personally think Wlad did better against Jennings than Ortiz because he did better pointfighting and took significantly less head damage but that was 2 years prior to Wlad's fight with Joshua. "we saw what fury did to wilder and he couldnt do that to klitschko which shows wilders level." Wilder did better against Fury in two of the three fights. Fury broke an all time defensive record against Wlad in his championship debut. If anything those fights support the idea that Wilder is better. Wlad also didn't face the 20 stone gypsy tank version of Fury so it's a moot point. Vitali in particular beat no one that good. His best win is arguably Chisora, who said that Ortiz is too dangerous and he'd never fight him.

Being a warrior in the ring is a different thing to having a team around you that navigates your career though. Most fighters are not literally scared of other fighters, they wouldn't be a boxer otherwise, never mind get to a good level. Most of them have sparred each other, as did Wlad and Wilder, so this idea fighters are scared to get in the ring with others that people have Is usually nonsense. Most of the fear from fighters and their teams is how a loss affects their status and business, not the fight itself. so with Wilder, I think it was really a case of his team trying to navigate his career rather than him being literally scared. His team were probably trying to wait for Wlad to get older but Fury took his belts and then Joshua finished him off and he retired....but if you rewind to early 2015 when Wilder was gearing up to fight for titles, I don't think many people really expected Fury and Joshua were going to end Wlad's career in next couple of years. Wilder and his team probably couldn't foresee that either and thought they could wait it out a few more years, expecting Wlad to maybe still have belts but be even older. I agree. Wilder's team was very cautious until 2018, partly because America hadn't had a heavyweight titlist since Briggs in 2007. But Wilder's shown tremendous courage in the ring, even his most fanatical haters cannot deny that. Joshua by contrast has not shown this level of courage, at minimum since 2017 if ever. I do think Joshua is afraid of Wilder, even a semi-trained/untrained 284 lbs Andy Ruiz in a big Saudi ring scared the hell of out him. Franklin too.

AJ dealt with him pretty comfortably in 2012. Whyte beat AJ in the amateurs and AJ beat him in the pros. A lot has changed in the last 11+ years. Message me back telling me I'm an idiot when they make the Zhang fight.

That was AJ's 2nd amateur fight when Whyte beat him. He barely had any experience. Dillian had been fighting I'm combat sports for years by then from a young age and was a good kickboxer and boxer. Its hardly a surprise that AJ lost that one. On the flipside, AJ was actually still quite a novice even as an amateur when he beat Zhang. Aj had only been boxing a couple of years. Anyway, amateur and pro's very different. AJ can beat Zhang as a pro, but I wouldn't be confident of this version that's lacking in confidence to do it. But he has the ability to... Zhang is nothing special. People only know him from his last few fights and fighting an idiot like Joyce that defends with his face. Zhang will look completely different against top heavyweights who don't use their chin as their only defence. He's very beatable. AJ would chin Zhang if he was confident like he used to be. "He's very beatable." Zhang has obvious weaknesses: below average gas tank and slow feet. But he has a lot of good attributes and is a dangerous fighter, especially for someone who got beat down and quit in 7 against fringe contender Andy Ruiz. And whose pro record against southpaws is 1-2. Zhang didn't just demolish Joyce x2 (who beat Parker, Dubois, edged Jennings), many if not most thought he deserved the decision against Hrgovic and Zhang certainly inflicted most of the damage, maybe a huge majority, despite getting outworked. I don't think a 34 year old mentally shopworn AJ has a good chance against Zhang. Maybe I'm wrong but we'll see if Hearn thinks I'm wrong. It'll be Yoka or Kabayel is my guess.

Yoka as a pro is a garbage. Somebody like Kabayel is much better fight. Yoka is inferior to Kabayel (at least the Kabayel who schooled Chisora 6 years ago) but Yoka makes more sense for Matchroom: bigger name, less risk, less risk of a boring 12 round fight where AJ looks terrible etc.

Team Joshua’s fear of southpaws is weird man, Usyk being a southpaw wasn’t the problem, Usyk being a far superior boxer was the problem. Statistically southpaws are a massive problem: https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/boxing-forums/non-stop-boxing/32035339-southpaws-are-hugely-overrepresented-as-victors-against-top-heavyweights

Well I suppose a UK man born from non Uk parents will defeat a French man born from non French parents! Leave it to the promoters to market this one. Can some please explain to an American why two nations are at odds in a sporting sense?​ It's all promoter spin at the end of the day. They are shameless. You get U.S. vs Mexico rivalries in boxing and U.S. vs UK, or Mexico vs Puerto Rico etc. There's nothing strange about it. Tribalism adds to the hype around the fight.

Would be a bigger dud than AJ-Franklin/Helenius. AJ should fight Zhang IMO. I think it’s a very winnable fight for him. No way Eddie risks that. Post-Forrest Zhang’s attributes 6’6, 280 lbs Southpaw Big power in both hands 23-25 years boxing experience, Olympic silver medallist in Beijing Durable and very mentally strong (salvaged a result against Forrest while running on fumes from round 4 or 5, 6/1 underdog against highly regarded undefeated contenders Hrgovic and Joyce 1, came back from being “robbed” over 12 against Hrgovic to destroy Joyce twice in London at 39/40)

Whyte and Joshua were novices, Joshua and Zhang were seniors fighting in the Olympics. Whether it happens or not is irrelevant, Zhang is a very winnable fight for AJ. I think it's a very unwinnable fight for AJ at this stage. But this is just my opinion against yours. What isn't opinion is whether they make the Zhang fight or whether they put AJ in with another pudding. If they put AJ in with a pudding it shows they lack confidence against Zhang, hence they don't see it as a very winnable fight. 34 year old AJ might beat anyone in your imagination but he has to get in the ring and prove it. That means not fighting jobbers like Franklin and Helenius, let alone having tough fights with them.

There's footage of one of his kickboxing bouts on YouTube where they fought with what looked like 8oz gloves, and he doesn't have that kind of punching power. Wasn't that very early on in his career? I don't think that was prime Ngannou in terms of punching technique and possibly not physical maturity either. 10 oz gloves certainly reduce punching power by a considerable margin relative to 4 oz but we know that lighter punching MMA heavies than Ngannou such as Greg Hardy have good power in a boxing ring despite their lack of pure boxing experience.

I mean, it's a fair point and logical, but Francis has yet to KO the caliber of boxer Takam has KO'd and all that alludes to. "but Francis has yet to KO the caliber of boxer Takam has KO'd" Ofc, he's 0-0 as a boxer. We're speculating based on other things we know. Such as the fact that UFC reject Greg Hardy stopped experienced 14-1 pro boxer Neely in 66 seconds, whereas none of the other 5 boxers he faced in the TCL 1 rounders did, including Usyk title challenger and former top 10 ranked HW Hunter. Which of these three would you take to KO Joshua if your life depended on it? Jermaine Franklin (part time factory worker, didn’t stop Pavel Sour over the full 10 rounds, who was smoked in 3 by Hughie, in 2 by Gorman and in 1 by Kabayel) Carlos Takam (didn’t drop or stop any of his 10 best opponents, including Yoka and Forrest and didn’t drop or stop MMA journeyman Maldonado over the 10 round distance under boxing rules) Francis Ngannou (GOAT UFC HW KO artist)

im afraid u are falling for the hype of this fight & its always the same with these types of things, it will almost certainly end in a easy win for fury and may even be borderline farce but the next one could be different........ could be... lol fury may even carry this guy rounds to make it looks semi competitive, fury can box very well, this guy cant box at all probably or if he can its very very basic stuff with & more than likely hes gassed after a few rounds and a sitting duck in there I don't disagree with you. But you underestimate the degree to which gross mismatches are a part of boxing and always have been! Fury-Franklin would be a bigger mismatch, despite the fact that many thought Franklin beat Whyte and is a top 30 boxer.

We'll find out in the 28th I don't think one fight can necessarily tell us: Ngannou may not be able to land a meaningful glove on Fury but Dillian Whyte couldn't either. Assuming he gets clowned by Fury, ideally Ngannou would stick around in boxing and fight some journeymen and fringe contenders to give us a better idea how effective/dangerous he may be. But even if he doesn't, more MMA heavies will transition on short notice in the future, like UFC reject Greg Hardy: Greg Hardy’s professional boxing career Began his combat sports career in October 2016 at 28, pro boxing debut in October 2022 KO/TKO’d five times across three sports, mostly in high profile UFC events (Tybura, Tuivasa, Spivac, Watson, Flores), heavily ridiculed by media and fans but still very aggressive; “him or me” mentality, fights like a man who is indifferent to getting KO’d and has jumped back into the ring just 91 days after a KO loss 6’5, 310-330 lbs Pressure on experienced boxers not to get KO’d by a “glass chinned NFL/MMA bum” Dominated 12-1 Rahman Jr. (UD4), 15-4 Corbin (RTD2) and 14-1 Neely (TKO in 66 seconds, only stopped by Hardy across six TCL one rounders) in his first 12 months as a boxer As of October 20th 2023, Hardy (3-0 pro) is ranked as the 94th (out of 1416) best active heavyweight boxer in the world by Boxrec

Seeing that Jerry forrest went the distance with many experienced pros, I would favor him, but I also think its in his best interest to request a longer fight like 6 or 8 rounds. It could be a sloppy fight, the mma guys dont fight the same as boxers remember connor vs floyd, that was sloppy, connor is not always lined up like a boxer in their positioning, he is all over the place and there is a lot of holding when they get in close. MMA fighters arent that different than youtubers, KSI vs Tommy was a sloppy mess by all acounts as well with tons of holding so it can be hard to look good in those fights. In 4 rounds I would favor Jerry Forrest but I wouldnt put any money on it, it will probably be a sloppy fight with lots of holding, hard to score the rounds and Ngannou is the bigger name very likely could get the win without doing much. In 8 rounds theres more time for Ngannou to tire out and Forrest to catch him. You put in a better fighter with say Pulev who has power, I am way more confident in him he will find an opening and put Ngannou to sleep. So recapping, I would pick Forrest but definitely not confident enough to put money on it and even less confident for a 4 rounder. Cool. Hopefully Greg Hardy will fight Forrest in a 4 rounder and we can see how that goes. They were both competing in the TCL, with Hardy having more success (albeit one-rounders in a small ring)

Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if he could beat a few guys in the top 30. He isnt very skilled but he'd probably get by on raw physical attributes to a certain extent. He is a big, strong, athletic (suspect gas tank aside) guy with natural power and seemingly a decent chin that hasnt been cracked yet. Exactly. Physicality can be more important than skill, hence Lomachenko didn't compete at heavyweight. I wouldn't like to see Loma in a boxing match with big Frank, despite the cosmic skill gap. And Ngannou does have 14-15 years striking experience; a lot more than UFC reject Hardy, who has dominated three experienced boxers inside 12 months. It's not like Ngannou is a total striking novice off the streets of Cameroon, as crude as he is. People don't like this line of thinking for various reasons. But with a gun to my head I'm taking Ngannou to KO Joshua over name boxers Takam and Franklin, easily.

I dont think its a probably, I think its a 99% chance that Fury hits harder than Ngannou in a boxing match. We seen it every single time with MMA "strikers" having no power in the ring. The only chance that Ngannou would hit harder is if its a natural 1 in 10000 or whatever with crazy power. Foreman, WIlder ect started later and rose through the ranks pretty fast but that is super rare and that would just be genetics and have nothing to do with MMA. Ngannou is about to be hit like hes never been hit before in his life by Fury. "We seen it every single time with MMA "strikers" having no power in the ring" Do MMA journeymen Hardy, Hunt and Tuivasa have "no power" in a boxing ring? Would you take Franklin, Takam or old Pulev to KO AJ over Ngannou?

mid 2010? A 2023 Pulev who is 42 would still smoke him pretty easily. What about Jerry Forrest? Are you confident that he would beat Ngannou in say a 4 rounder, given that UFC journeyman Greg Hardy dominated Rahman Jr, Corbin and Neely?

is there any footage of this guy even sparing, i doubt he could even take out a decent sparing partner lol, thats how bad he could be would be quite likely There is but if it's for public consumption it could be extremely misleading, meant to lull Fury into a false sense of security (not that it will make a difference).