Why did Wilder lack balls to fight an out-of-prime Klitschko?

- - A rather doltish effort. U a noob? 1. Fat Andy the only fighter out of a half dozen top 10 contenders to fight AJ in his American Debut. Those duckers prominently include Blubber and Deyonce both turning down career record purses to fight each other for peanuts. 2. Blubber currently #3 Boxrec rated behind Usyk and AJ because he's a drug cheat and ducker extraordinaire starting with the Wlad rematch. All the top 10 fighters were angling for the low hanging spoiling fruit of manufactured Deyonce. Blubber got the Deyonce call over the others because he was several years inactive whilst gorging on wh0res, pies, booze, and cocaine while blowing up to 400lbs. Looked weak as a newborn kitten in his comeback, off balance needing to hang on the rope and punching like Bambi. BoxRec: Ratings AJ unified Wlad's titles that Blubber never defended and has kept them intact all these years later while Blubber disgraces himself thinking he's gonna make a fortune fighting a near 40 yr old African MMA fighter. Whatever dude, he burnt toast beyond redemption along with Deyonce...:yeah::flowers1::yeah:​ What a lot of jibberish. Here is some reality for you: Hurdles for Joshua to overcome 1. He only regards one of his last ten fights as being one of his top five performances (the embarrassing spectacle of Ruiz 2, 2019), compared to four of his best performances in the seven fights pre-Takam (Kevin, Whyte, Martin, Wlad, 2015-2017), indicating that he regards his best days as being well in the past and that it was generally downhill post-41 year old dethroned Wlad (which is Joshua’s only marquee win) 2. 34 years old, made a huge amount of money (which is Joshua’s self-confessed primary motivation), been a media superstar since 2012 and had two title reigns over almost 5 years 3. Worries about getting brain damage, wants his legacy to be that he retired healthy, said he was “coming towards the end of my career” in January 2021 (before his losses to Usyk) and claimed that he was looking to retire at the age of “35-37”, having previously said immediately post-Ruiz 1 that he had no plans to retire before he was 38 4. 3 defeats (2 by upset) in his last 7, NOMAS7 with 4 KD’s received in his first (and thus far only) fight on away/American soil, to B-side, 6’, 270 lbs obese late sub light puncher Ruiz (the most humiliating defeat in combat sports history) 5. Back to back points defeats to B-side, 6’3, 220 lbs, ex-cruiser light puncher Usyk 6. 3 KO wins in his last 9 fights and 6+ years, against 39 year old versions of Povetkin, Pulev and Helenius and hasn’t stopped an opponent inside 6 since Molina in 2016: little confidence or desire to get stuck in, prefers to play it safe and go to points even if he is being outboxed (Usyk), if the opponent previously KO’d him (Ruiz 2) or if he’s expected to make a statement against an overmatched opponent (Franklin) 7. Hasn’t been on more than a two fight win streak in his seven fights post-Povetkin 8. By the same racial logic that Joshua applied to Eddie Chambers in 2017, Joshua has been a “bum” and a “disgrace” since 2019 9. Knew that any hope of a positive legacy evaporated the night that Ruiz manhandled and humiliated him 10. Uncertainty with and lack of confidence from his new team: a third head trainer in three consecutive fights from Usyk 1 to Franklin, with the most recent trainer James (an American; a nationality which does not generally respect Joshua’s chin/heart/ability) then failing to make his long-standing marquee welterweight Spence even competitive with his main rival Crawford, before failing to make undisputed LMW champion Charlo competitive with Canelo in an embarrassing survival mode performance. James didn’t throw the towel in even when Spence was getting battered with no chance, which would have discouraged Joshua 11. Lack of trust in his promotional company (he’s admitted that he’s a cash cow being milked, on a “lifetime deal” that he signed with Matchroom pre-Usyk 1) 12. Continues to see his résumé age horribly (Fury did a far better job on Wlad and Whyte, who were Joshua’s self-confessed 3rd and 4th “best/favourite performances” respectively) 13. Gone from hero to zero, lost a huge amount of support (much of it to sneering antagonist Fury) and respect 14. Fears (or perhaps hopes) that another defeat would end his career 15. The fighters ranked above him who he hasn’t fought (Fury, Wilder) are favoured to beat him, likely by KO, with fighters in the lower half of the top 10 also very dangerous for him 16. Knows that he probably has to beat GOAT right hand KO artist Wilder (a Fury victim who Hearn has derided for years, increasing pressure on Joshua, who is scared of Wilder) and in dominant fashion if he wants a chance to get the ultra-lucrative, ultra-status Fury fight 17. The prospect of Fury beating, even dominating Joshua’s 2x conqueror Usyk hangs over Joshua

Look at Joshua's purses in 2016 and compare them to Wilder's. He was a far more lucrative opponent for Wlad. Joshua was a -275 favourite or thereabouts. Joshua-Wlad was seen as a 70-30 fight in Joshua's favour. A very good win for sure but Joshua's career has been downhill ever since. By your logic Chisora has the best resume, it doesn't matter that he's lost. Joshua has an inferior resume to Wilder in my view because: 1. Wilder's got a draw with Fury + 30-0 Ortiz > Wlad and Povetkin 2. Joshua's got 3 losses to two different fighters (one being a 25-1 Ruiz), Wilder's got 2 losses against one, who is regarded as the best in the division and a clear favourite over Usyk You can make a counterargument based on Joshua beating Whyte, Takam etc. but this is meaningless in my opinion as they are levels below the top, like Stiverne and Duhaupas were. Ruiz narrowly and controversially decisioned a 43 year old Ortiz who Wilder had KO'd twice in the previous 4.5 years. Amazing. The teams of Fury, Wilder and Zhang are all claiming that Ruiz is demanding too much money, pricing himself out and he's been dropping in the rankings of several bodies. It remains a disgraceful loss for Joshua. - - A rather doltish effort. U a noob? 1. Fat Andy the only fighter out of a half dozen top 10 contenders to fight AJ in his American Debut. Those duckers prominently include Blubber and Deyonce both turning down career record purses to fight each other for peanuts. 2. Blubber currently #3 Boxrec rated behind Usyk and AJ because he's a drug cheat and ducker extraordinaire starting with the Wlad rematch. All the top 10 fighters were angling for the low hanging spoiling fruit of manufactured Deyonce. Blubber got the Deyonce call over the others because he was several years inactive whilst gorging on wh0res, pies, booze, and cocaine while blowing up to 400lbs. Looked weak as a newborn kitten in his comeback, off balance needing to hang on the rope and punching like Bambi. BoxRec: Ratings AJ unified Wlad's titles that Blubber never defended and has kept them intact all these years later while Blubber disgraces himself thinking he's gonna make a fortune fighting a near 40 yr old African MMA fighter. Whatever dude, he burnt toast beyond redemption along with Deyonce...:yeah::flowers1::yeah:​

None of this right . Joshua wasn’t a bigger pay over Klitchko he didn’t even have a title when Wilder won his and only had about 14/15 fights ? Klitchko would have been an undisputed fight , Joshua wasn’t even a U.K formal champion he wasn’t a world champion and not even close to Wlads status in 2015 . Joshua was never available in this time frame so stating Wlad picked Joshua bc of money isn’t reality . The odds were 2/1 in the Joshua vs Klitchko fight no one was a big favorite and many people were picking klitchko only when Joshua won he then became old as boxing scenes predictability once again surfaces afterward of any Joshua win you’ll see a list of excuses why he won . Lol You ended the out right wrong post by further damaging yourself . Wilders resume is better ? Really ? :alcoholic If Fury fights Usyk that means it’s the first real fight he’s unsure of winning in many years you just projected fantasy of what posters might say because that’s all you got . The fact is Usyk would be his best win but since he hasn’t fought him you just come up with excuses as to why bother fighting him like many detractors on here . You even compared certain fights on Wilders resume performance wise to state he has a better resume ? How does that work isn’t resume based on overall opposition not what one looked like in a particular fight ? If we still went on that he doesn’t have a better resume bc he has fought the lower tier guys overall . lol And put an insult as losing to ( someone like him ) Ruiz is bad when Ruiz has a win over Wilders best win and lost every rnd in the rematch when 90% of posters said Joshua couldn’t out box Ruiz they claimed he ran for 12 rounds and further imply Wilder MAY flatten him but hasn’t right ? Come on man make it make sense at least talk about what actually happened not what ifs . :rofl: Look at Joshua's purses in 2016 and compare them to Wilder's. He was a far more lucrative opponent for Wlad. Joshua was a -275 favourite or thereabouts. Joshua-Wlad was seen as a 70-30 fight in Joshua's favour. A very good win for sure but Joshua's career has been downhill ever since. By your logic Chisora has the best resume, it doesn't matter that he's lost. Joshua has an inferior resume to Wilder in my view because: 1. Wilder's got a draw with Fury + 30-0 Ortiz > Wlad and Povetkin 2. Joshua's got 3 losses to two different fighters (one being a 25-1 Ruiz), Wilder's got 2 losses against one, who is regarded as the best in the division and a clear favourite over Usyk You can make a counterargument based on Joshua beating Whyte, Takam etc. but this is meaningless in my opinion as they are levels below the top, like Stiverne and Duhaupas were. Ruiz narrowly and controversially decisioned a 43 year old Ortiz who Wilder had KO'd twice in the previous 4.5 years. Amazing. The teams of Fury, Wilder and Zhang are all claiming that Ruiz is demanding too much money, pricing himself out and he's been dropping in the rankings of several bodies. It remains a disgraceful loss for Joshua.

Being a warrior in the ring is a different thing to having a team around you that navigates your career though. Most fighters are not literally scared of other fighters, they wouldn't be a boxer otherwise, never mind get to a good level. Most of them have sparred each other, as did Wlad and Wilder, so this idea fighters are scared to get in the ring with others that people have Is usually nonsense. Most of the fear from fighters and their teams is how a loss affects their status and business, not the fight itself. so with Wilder, I think it was really a case of his team trying to navigate his career rather than him being literally scared. His team were probably trying to wait for Wlad to get older but Fury took his belts and then Joshua finished him off and he retired....but if you rewind to early 2015 when Wilder was gearing up to fight for titles, I don't think many people really expected Fury and Joshua were going to end Wlad's career in next couple of years. Wilder and his team probably couldn't foresee that either and thought they could wait it out a few more years, expecting Wlad to maybe still have belts but be even older. I agree. Wilder's team was very cautious until 2018, partly because America hadn't had a heavyweight titlist since Briggs in 2007. But Wilder's shown tremendous courage in the ring, even his most fanatical haters cannot deny that. Joshua by contrast has not shown this level of courage, at minimum since 2017 if ever. I do think Joshua is afraid of Wilder, even a semi-trained/untrained 284 lbs Andy Ruiz in a big Saudi ring scared the hell of out him. Franklin too.

Why y'all acting like it was just up to Wilder? Wlad was the one who was the long-reigning HW champion with all the belts. Wilder became a champion in January of 2015 Klit lost to Fury in November of 2015. You're arguing that he ducked him for a like 10 months?:rolleyes:

Very funny. There was "no" Fury or Joshua at the time. Try again. Yes there was.

Because of skill. That's too dangerous for him at that time.

Because it was a big risk at the time and Wilder needed to be built up more to have a super fight with Fury or Joshua in the future Very funny. There was "no" Fury or Joshua at the time. Try again.

Wilder was 33-0 when Shelly said he was still a baby Vlad was literally flooring him in sparring. Essentially you were putting Vlad in with one of his lower leel sparring partner. Honestly I think taking the fight would have helped his career. He would have been forced to develop after Vlad slept him early in his career. Unlikely, he would've been considered an also ran to an American audience already souring on Boxing. Jennings fight with Klitschko didn't help him and managers are businessmen they want their fighter to earn them more money. Joshua had the entire UK behind him while Wilder had Alabama which isn't even the wealthiest state of the Gulf of Mexico.

It's a simple question. Would Wilder have gotten any credit ? Seems as if it would have been a lose/lose scenario with ''fans'' like you. No, Wladimir Klitschko did not leave Deontay Wilder ‘twitching’ via KO ​https://www.worldboxingnews.net/2022/05/31/deontay-wilder-ko-wladimir-klitschko/ {"data-align":"none","data-size":"medium","data-attachmentid":32042186} I can't find a link to support the Wilder ducked Wlad and you didn't supply one. One would think a TS would provide info to support their claims. THEY RARELY DO

so with Wilder, I think it was really a case of his team trying to navigate his career rather than him being literally scared. You can't make the "team" excuse in this forum. Golovkin, for example, was blamed for every fight he did in his career from the moment he stepped into pro boxing. Haven't seen anyone making his team accountable even with his earliest fights. There were many examples. Point is this is a sport where fans go easy with their fighters and go hard with fighters they dislike that have far better records.

Wilder's never shown a lack of courage in the ring so his balls can't be reasonably questioned. He's never quit as AJ did against Andy Ruiz for instance and he took more damage in the 2nd and 3rd Fury fights. Klitschko was the unbeaten in 11+ years Ring/lineal champion and P4P No.6, neither Wilder or Joshua were going near him in 2015 because their teams wouldn't allow it. Wlad was dominating contenders and considered well above the rest of the field. Being a warrior in the ring is a different thing to having a team around you that navigates your career though. Most fighters are not literally scared of other fighters, they wouldn't be a boxer otherwise, never mind get to a good level. Most of them have sparred each other, as did Wlad and Wilder, so this idea fighters are scared to get in the ring with others that people have Is usually nonsense. Most of the fear from fighters and their teams is how a loss affects their status and business, not the fight itself. so with Wilder, I think it was really a case of his team trying to navigate his career rather than him being literally scared. His team were probably trying to wait for Wlad to get older but Fury took his belts and then Joshua finished him off and he retired....but if you rewind to early 2015 when Wilder was gearing up to fight for titles, I don't think many people really expected Fury and Joshua were going to end Wlad's career in next couple of years. Wilder and his team probably couldn't foresee that either and thought they could wait it out a few more years, expecting Wlad to maybe still have belts but be even older.

Wilder was 33-0 when Shelly said he was still a baby Vlad was literally flooring him in sparring. Essentially you were putting Vlad in with one of his lower leel sparring partner. Honestly I think taking the fight would have helped his career. He would have been forced to develop after Vlad slept him early in his career.

I genuinely think Wilder would’ve murdered the post Fury version of Wlad. He probably beats the Wlad Fury beat too IMO. In hindsight, I think Klitschko’s decline was pretty obvious, he looked poor against Jennings, worse against Fury and he was a shell of the fighter he once was against AJ. I think it was a missed opportunity by team Wilder not targeting the undisputed fight in 2014/15.

Because the assmatic simp fast forward fans overseas didnt realize that Wilder was a work in progress and that he sparred Klitschsko because he respected him and wanted to learn….and waited for his time to shine. The author doesn’t know this because he’s an no knowledge having armchair.

Klitschko was Joshua's 19th fight in 2017. Stiverne was Wilder's 33rd fight in 2015, and 4 more fights later up to 2016, Wilder still had no intention of fighting the Ukrainian heavyweight superstar. Joshua was more ready than Wilder and Joshua was already a big name drawing big gates and purses pre Klitschko fight. Wilder wasn't big yet and American people buy into being undefeated a lot more than people from the UK

except its not. vitali doesnt even have a great resume but its clearly better than wilders. we can break it down if you'd like but wilder has only beaten 2 top 10 fighters. vitali beat at least 5 or 6, i have the stats on another thread. you see when you say things that dont make sense, it damages your credibility and you fall into the fanboy category where you constantly use confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, logical fallacies, etc...to try and prove your points but they will never make sense because they arent based on anything reasonable or substantial. just say you like wilder and you think he ko's everyone. thats fine, i cant disprove that. all i can prove is that hes been fed a steady diet of bums and his resumse isnt very good. you cant really argue against that so why try? in fantasy land wilder might be great, but i operate in reality "but wilder has only beaten 2 top 10 fighters. vitali beat at least 5 or 6" Smoke and mirrors. Vitali beat no one of note and if the likes of Kevin Johnson had top 10 rankings it only goes to underline the idea that the Klitschko era was weaker. Vitali beat no one as good as Ortiz, didn't get a result against anyone remotely on Fury's level, he quit against a LHW, lost to Lewis, who McCall and Rahman put away. And Wilder is an active fighter who can still add more, Vitali's been retired for 10+ years.

wait so you are saying wlad ducked wilder now? even though wilder's own manager says he didnt want wilder to fight wlad and wilders resume for years was full of no-hopers which confirmed that he was being truthful about wanting easy fights and not rushing into big fights. wow this is crazy cognitive dissonance going on here. you think wilders resume is better than joshuas or vitalis? thats just silly buddy and you know it. be better. or be best as melanie trump says. an old wlad is better than an old ortiz wouldnt you say? thats wilders best win btw and hes not close to klitschko coming off a pitty pat loss. dont act like he was shot. we saw what fury did to wilder and he couldnt do that to klitschko which shows wilders level. the best result is a draw which should be a loss to a guy they cherry picked who looked stone cold terrible in all his fights leading up to the wilder fight? you are off the rails. wilder has beaten 2 top 10 fighters his entire career. guys like joshua and vitali have beaten far more and better quality fighters i might add. "wait so you are saying wlad ducked wilder now?" No. Learn to read. Going for Joshua for a bigger money fight doesn't mean you're ducking Wilder. "you think wilders resume is better than joshuas or vitalis?" Of course. Losses count (quitting against Ruiz, schooled x2 by Usyk, quitting against Byrd, failing against Lewis) and they have worse losses than Wilder (in Joshua's case more losses), who has a draw against Fury, which is the best result on their combined records. Wlad was 41 and coming off a schooling, 30-0 Ortiz was under 39 (younger than Joshua's victims Povetkin, Pulev and Helenius). I personally think Wlad did better against Jennings than Ortiz because he did better pointfighting and took significantly less head damage but that was 2 years prior to Wlad's fight with Joshua. "we saw what fury did to wilder and he couldnt do that to klitschko which shows wilders level." Wilder did better against Fury in two of the three fights. Fury broke an all time defensive record against Wlad in his championship debut. If anything those fights support the idea that Wilder is better. Wlad also didn't face the 20 stone gypsy tank version of Fury so it's a moot point. Vitali in particular beat no one that good. His best win is arguably Chisora, who said that Ortiz is too dangerous and he'd never fight him.

"who actually took risks" Fury x3 and undefeated Ortiz were considerable risks. Stiverne 1 was close to even odds at the time, Wilder had never been past 4 rounds and he schooled him. Only Fury and Wlad are clearly more accomplished at heavyweight right now. If Usyk gets beaten by Fury then suddenly he will look a lot less impressive, as will Joshua by extension, as will Ruiz by extension. Vitali's resume is weaker than Wilder's and non-titlist Povetkin's team avoided Ortiz according to his own manager. except its not. vitali doesnt even have a great resume but its clearly better than wilders. we can break it down if you'd like but wilder has only beaten 2 top 10 fighters. vitali beat at least 5 or 6, i have the stats on another thread. you see when you say things that dont make sense, it damages your credibility and you fall into the fanboy category where you constantly use confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, logical fallacies, etc...to try and prove your points but they will never make sense because they arent based on anything reasonable or substantial. just say you like wilder and you think he ko's everyone. thats fine, i cant disprove that. all i can prove is that hes been fed a steady diet of bums and his resumse isnt very good. you cant really argue against that so why try? in fantasy land wilder might be great, but i operate in reality

"wilder didnt want to fight klitschko. Finkel said" Wilder ≠ Finkel. "joshua fought klitschko" 1. Joshua was a much bigger payday than Wilder, hence Charles Martin, Wlad and Joseph Parker wanted to fight him over Wilder 2. Joshua was a big favourite over Wlad, who was 41, fighting away from home and hadn't been able to lay a glove on Fury in his previous fight 17 months prior "straight out the garbage resume" I'd say it's better than Joshua's and Vitali's. The best result on their records is Wilder's draw against Fury. And Wilder never quit, let alone against someone like Andy Ruiz, who Wilder may well yet flatten. If Fury dominates Usyk then suddenly he'll be "too small" and a "blown up cruiserweight" who "struggled with Chisora". wait so you are saying wlad ducked wilder now? even though wilder's own manager says he didnt want wilder to fight wlad and wilders resume for years was full of no-hopers which confirmed that he was being truthful about wanting easy fights and not rushing into big fights. wow this is crazy cognitive dissonance going on here. you think wilders resume is better than joshuas or vitalis? thats just silly buddy and you know it. be better. or be best as melanie trump says. an old wlad is better than an old ortiz wouldnt you say? thats wilders best win btw and hes not close to klitschko coming off a pitty pat loss. dont act like he was shot. we saw what fury did to wilder and he couldnt do that to klitschko which shows wilders level. the best result is a draw which should be a loss to a guy they cherry picked who looked stone cold terrible in all his fights leading up to the wilder fight? you are off the rails. wilder has beaten 2 top 10 fighters his entire career. guys like joshua and vitali have beaten far more and better quality fighters i might add.