He hasn't ****ing fought anyone? He's got a big mouth? There's lot's of promotional glitz and hype and nonsense that adds some weight to his name? He has a flashy style and skills that are superficially reminiscent of Floyd Mayweather?
That's nice and all... but he hasn't ****ing beat anyone that justified his reputation. More bull**** dumb dumb fans buy into.
Pacquiao said marg hits very hard. Something he didnt say about cotto.
Are you trolling? You might want to review post fight interviews, discussion, statements etc.
In the age of the internet... you can't just make **** up.
Pacquaio did indeed praise cottos power.
People are really missing the point. Who knows how much trouble he was in either fight. You can't tell.
If you understand boxing and the mechanics of a punch you can grasp the fact that Cotto indeed likely has better pop. That doesn't mean margarito is any less effective or feather fisted. Margarito beats guys down in wars of attrition. He systematically breaks guys down with a high volume. He doesn't have the kind of concussive punching power we see on the left hook of Cotto. Miguel has real explosive snap. Margarito is almost a clubbing puncher at times.
Just because you can argue that Margarito had Pac in more trouble... and that's highly questionable because we just don't know.... does not mean that margarito is the better puncher.
Cotto is the same way...He systematically breaks you down as well.
Well he can indeed fight that kind of fight. Never said he couldn't. However that is Antonio's only mode of action.
Cotto has far more skill as a pure boxer. As a PUNCHER he is superior. He has a level of general sharpness... timing, distance, placement. The way in which he executes a punch is far more conducive to a concussive and damaging blow relative to the way antonio punches. He throws shorter, with greater velocity, snap, and leverage.
Margarito is undoubtedly heavyhanded. But he isn't the pure puncher Cotto is. That alone doesn't mean he is the inferior fighter. What he brings is huge intensity, volume, and mental fortitutde that allows him to set a pace that just breaks guys.
He has big power. Emmanuel Steward will testify to this. You look at the left hook that put mayorga down in the 12th. There's some big power there.
The problem is he is vunerable at these weights and can be hurt. He often finds himself hurt, on the backfoot, surrendering the momentum to his opponent and trying to survive and be effective on the backfoot. He cant sit in the pocket, plant his feet, and really just TEE off with his shots. That's why Mosley could put Margarito away and Cotto couldn't. Mosley could plant his feet, stand, and bang.
How about this. Ricky Hatton was never that good to start with. He was a solid fighter at 140. Nothing Great
He struggled with ****ing Collazo. He is a straight up and down offensive fighter lacking. He walked straight into the Killzone and Pac destroyed him. Whether you dislike Pac or not is irrelvant... he is a fantastic puncher with a great combination of speed/power/intensity... and if you go place you're chin in harms way like Hatton did it better be made out of Granite. Hatton was MADE for Pac... it wasnt because Floyd laid down an epic beating on him. That fight in the context of boxings history hardly demonstrates a severe beating at all. A dominant Performance in which Floyd closed the show. Not a career ending beating that leaves a man as a mere shell.
Agree that Oscar was robbed. It doesn't matter if you think he was a pussy, disliked his approach etc... thats the problem with boxing... emotional attatchment, lack of integrity and consistency amongst officials, and emotional attatchment. He outpointed trinidad no matter which way you spin it. He should've fought the latter rounds differently, he did make a mistake... but he didn't lose that fight.
marquez rocked and had manny hurt plenty of times? and power is the last thing to leave a fighter. and mosley only 5 years older than floyd. next
Numbers in regards to age in this sport are very simplistic indicators at best.. you need to dig deeper and look at the circumstances. Floyd although in his 30's is in terrific condition. He was managed well, avoided damage, kept himself in supreme condition between fights thus eliminating the wear and tear on the body as a result of playing catchup which can be huge... he isn't a weathered 33 year old. He's got a few years left up his sleeve. Shane on the other hand is undeniably past his physical prime without the depth in skill to fall back on... he has been through the wars and in the game far too long. He has looked slow on the trigger for far too long. Anyone who has watched a fair amount of Shane as a quicksilver fast young fighter can see the slow incremental decline over the years. In regards to Pacquaio... i hope he gets some good fights quick because with the intensity of his output and style he will hit the wall and decline sooner than later.. such fighters always do.
Right anyone who thinks floyd wasnt seriously hurt is retarded. Floyds legs went soft on him, he was unsteady, he showed all the signs of a fighter that had been seriously rattled. What he also showed was great recovery and composure. He didnt prove he had some elite level durability and recuperative powers that made him KO-proof... Mosely didn't press enough.... he simply showed a solid chin and composure when hurt... a couple of boxes you need to tick off when discussing a great fighter.
People need to be objective, take a step back, put their little ****ed up obsessions and fanboy attitudes aside and view things objectively. Both Manny and Floyd are great fighters and both matchup competitively... stop trying to write off you're preferred fighter as a fraud. Instead just intellectually debate how they matchup stylistically. This applies to the ultra enthusiastic pac fans as much as it does the mayweather ones.
Manny has a much better chance at putting Floyd away no doubt. He doesn't have as heavy hands, but he has far greater snap to hit shots. Those head jarring shots thrown with real velocity are what rattle you're brain... the kind of shots that buzz you and turn you're legs to jello. With his greater snap, raw speed, and angles he's more likely to catch Floyd with something he doesn't see coming and follow it up with an overwhelming onslaught. Mosely did next to nothing, was tight, tentative subsequent to hurting Floyd.
I don't see any evidence of Floyd having a granite chin... what i do see is a great defensive fighter who can neutralise an attack. He at the least see's the punches coming and attempts to roll with them. He has a solid chin no doubt, but when he rarely does get tagged with something he doesn't anticipate and adjust to sufficiently he is quite obviously rattled... Pac CAN hurt him. In this fight if Floyd decides to stand in the pocket Manny throws with so much intensity and speed from unconventional angles whilst maintaining body and head movement... some of those punches will find their mark.
There shouldn't be any debate about whether Pac can a) land or b) hurt Mayweather... of course he can... where the debate comes in is who is most capable of imposing their style and advantages to the greatest effect. I pick Floyd to get on his bike and box conservatively in an attempt to remove Pac's effective range and pac will swarm in with intensity... Floyd will be forced to dig deep and fight it out in bursts.
Its a pickem... the idea that its a walkover for either man is ridiculous. Would be an epic fight.
On another note. I cant believe anyone would question Cottos 'dedication' to doing whatever is necessary to win a fight. Cotto isn't the best, he isn't one of the absolute elite... but his heart and dedication are 100%. His losses are due to limitations in his ability... not dedication. If Cotto cant pump the jab out all night it would be because he is limited from doing so.
Would favour Floyd but i think everyone is taking far too much away from Cotto. He matches up rather well against Floyd. Cotto is a formidable fighter on the front foot, when he has confidence and momentum. He is sharp, fluid, skilled and strong. When a fighter is unable to hurt him, and Floyd wont be able to significantly... he can establish his front foot rhythm get that jab going and work off it with powershots. Cotto is being written off by many based on his recent losses... these losses were to fighters whom could neutralise his momentum and hurt him. I would favour Floyd to win by UD after some real difficulty.
Marquez knocked Pac out cold, while Cotto couldn't, Marquez sent Alvarado flying across the ring with one punch, while Ruslan couldn't.
Ruslan hits hard but Marquez hits much harder.
None of which means Marquez is a harder puncher.
Marquez with his counter-punching prowess and all around boxing skills has the ability to get well timed bombs on target. He doesn't ****ing hit harder than Cotto. Cotto was getting lit up by Pacquaio who was at the absolute peak of his career. Marquez has the timing, the sense of distance, the ability to anticipate... and he makes what he throws really count.
yeah, that does make sense. like norton really HAD ali's number, while tarver, in a sense got lucky at his timing. perphaps there were others who roy fought earlier in his career, that were probably better than tarver that could have done what tarver did
Norton would always trouble Ali, but in 67... Ali's lateral movement would let him get away with the flaws norton exposed.
ROFL Holmes was better then Ali? on the basis that he beat him in 1980 when he had parkinsons disease? I really hope your joking. Ali took out 3 greats and had the physical assets before his lay-off to pick Holmes to pieces.
Wow
you give me a link to peoples opinions, thats one sports writer, when i have read other sports writers stating SHAVERS is the most powerful, others saying FOREMAN. The point still stands, Ali had the greatest Chin of any heavyweight, the most condition of any heavyweight, if he can take shots to the head from shavers and foreman Marciano isn't going to drop him... if he can take 8 rounds of foreman pummeling the body, marciano isn't going to drop him. Its not going to be like rumble and the jungle when Ali lost his ability to move fluidly in the ring, marciano having slower footwork would not be able to CUT OFF ali... and when he did Ali would absorb his punishment and simply tie him up. Marciano may have been powerful but he didn't have the handspeed of say frazier, and like foreman going from body to head will be in VAIN. Ali will Tie him up, move around the periphery and pick him off... im not saying Ali was invincible, he could be beaten, never 3/5 times in his prime, but marciano is not the type of fighter that would beat Ali. Ali fought well against agressors in his prime, they would move forward and he would control the range and counter punch... someone like Louis would give a Prime Ali trouble.
]]]
=========================
You should grow some brains, but we realize you can't grow something from nothing. Frazier's kids were getting into fights at schools with kids mimicking Ali and calling their father a Tom or a gorilla. Ali was incredibly racist back then though it ain't PC to admit it today since he matured.
Your a fucken moron, Muhammad Ali belonged to the nation of islam for a short period of time... in this time he believed in SEPERATISM NOT RACISM... in other words he believed in black independence and he didn't believe in interacial marriage... BUT he still liked white people, his trainer was white... he respected many a white folk, funnily enough he was a friend of howard corsell. After he left the nation of islam he became an ORTHODOX Muslim and his ideals changed... he believed in unity.
That means absolutely nothing, Muhammad Ali didn't train for that fight NOR take it seriously... it was A FILM in combination with a computer that was less powerful then a modern calculator... Marciano trained very hard for that fight. A prime, trained Ali would beat him... the fact of the matter is he is too fast and fancy, can absorb too much punishment, has a concrete chin and whilst losing on points the rock wouldn't be able to drop him.
http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=26&more=1
Heres a link of a sports writer commenting on the matter, good article, no doubt Marciano would be a handful... but inevitably lose to 67' Ali.
Reading your posts this just gets worse... Ali can't imagine him in his prime, first thats a 'matter of speech' second that doesn't equate into: MARCIANO COULD BEAT ME, At his age his speed and his stamina may have diminished... but not his power. Let me guess, your senseless hardline views must mean YOUR ITALIAN.
OMG this is ridculous. EVERYONE stop bringing up the henry cooper incident, it was a freak incident that rarely occured in Ali' career. Ali didn't often step into a left hook. It was the young relatively naive inexperienced 21 yr old Cassius Clay that fought cooper not the great Muhammad Ali that we look back at in awe. Now when comparing lets use Ali in his prime(1967) who had developed his skills and still retained his foot and hand speed. Ali withstood poundings from Foreman and frazier in 1974 - after he had lost alot of his hand and footspeed due to his ban from boxing. HE had a chin of steel that withstood punishment from frazier and forman, he would have no prob with tyson when he was in his prime. Infact i doubt he would have to withstand much punishement from tyson as the prime Ali with his exceptional footwork would have no problem keeping his distance against tyson who wasn't great at cutting off the ring. Ali with his superior ring smarts would find to many ways to adapt and neutralize Tyson. I believe its tysons mental weakness that would result in his demise againtst Ali, Ali would frustrate him as a result of his unorthodox style and taunting, this could result in tyson losing his cool and walking straight into Ali's counterpunches which did have the potential to knock tyson out. In conclusion due to tysons relative lack of stamina and ringsmarts its quite probable Ali would win by Unanimous descion, if not a KO.
WOW it never said Rocky Was in shape what it said is he had to train hard to work off some weight in order for anyone to take it seriously when that was filmed he weighed 240 something pounds...had he been down to his normal 185 and younger he would of crippled ali prime or not and u saw what ali said "I can't believe how strong and how hard Rocky can hit," he said.
"Marciano was a lot harder to hit with a jab then he looked. I can feel how great Marciano must have been just from being in the ring with him when he was 46 years old. I can't even imagine what Rocky must have been like in his prime."
LOL, yes he would inflict some damage on Ali when he did manage to cut off the ring... he would cripple Ali? really like Foreman crippled Ali? Or maybe how Frazier crippled Ali? Or Shavers? Or Liston? Marciano never hit harder then any of these guys, he would have to cut off the ring in order to hit Ali... something he fail to do regulary... It wouldn't be an easy fight but if you can't see that Ali would win you really need to read up on your boxing my friend.... THE COMPUTER fight isn't relevant, Muhammad didn't have much respect for Mariciano, he didn't realise he could hit hard... thus the comments at the end, it wasn't him admitting that Marciano would defeat him... If you think the computer fight had any bearing on reality, your incredibly naieve.
Um i dont think he had a better chin or a better punch. Ali wasn't at his prime when he fought any swarmer, Marciano didn't swarm like frazier, he moved slower with his agressive crouching style... Marciano didn't hit harder then frazier, nor Liston, nor Foreman and your REALLY naieve if you thought otherwise. THE COMPUTER FIGHT MEANS NOTHING... ALI WASN'T TRAINED, WASN'T CONDITIONED... Foreman pounded Ali's body harder then Marciano would EVER be able to for 8 rounds and he never dropped. BUT my main point is Marciano didn't swarm as quickly as frazier, moved slower then frazier and against Muhammad ali in his prime would not be able to cut Ali off regulary enough to inflict enough damage... it would be a repeat of a Frazier vs Ali fight with Ali being able to fight and Marciano being slower.
Frazier was so predictable with his head movement when he fought Ali, that's why he always got peppered with jabs, and right crosses.
I think the fact that Marciano, who is arguably the biggest puncher to ever grace boxing, and the fact that he is a swarmer would affect Ali's shot of beating him. If you look at the fight with Frazier, Frazier was really a one-punch trick. His left hook was a devestating shot, but he did not use it like Marciano did to set up his right hand. Frazier had a good right hand no doubt, but it wasn't on Marciano's level.
Marciano was relentless with the way he fought. He had so much heart, so much courage that eventually He would get to Ali on the ropes and just beat on the arms and shoulders until Ali dropped his hands and Marciano would eventually knock him out.
You aren't getting this are you... Any sportswriter, anyone that KNOWS anythign about boxing knows Marciano wasn't the heaviest hitter of all time, That Ali has Been hit with bigger shots. Marciano swarmed SLOWER then Frazier, significantly slower... frazier only fought Ali after his prime, not the dancing Ali... he wouldn't be able to cut Ali off and are you trying to tell me hes going to inflict more damage then George Foreman? Earnie Shavers? Sonny Liston? Frazier Would probably be AS powerful as Marciano but he had greater handspeed... Marciano wouldn't be able to cut Ali off and when he did hes not going to drop the man with the most conditioned body and best jaw of anyone witnessed.. end of story. Ali Had just as much Courage as Marciano, can absorb more punishment then any other boxer witnessed and is the only fighter Marciano doesn't have the advantage in relation to 'HEART' over..... go read up on your boxing history before you spout shit.
i brought up carmine vingo to state that rocky didn't have trouble against tall guys with long reaches, and just jabs aren't going to win the fight rocky would just beat up on his body and move to his head
Its not the height or the reach, Its the fact that Marcianos footwork was too crude thus he wouldn't be able to cut him off and work the body and head... Alis comprehension of range was the best ever seen, he would control the range and pick marciano off.. When Marciano did get inside he would land some shots but Ali has proven he has the Jaw and durability to take the shots OF FOREMAN... marciano doesn't hit that hard... Ali would win this on points.
pls just look at the statistics there all there Marciano harder then everyone and the even came close was foreman
Where are the statistics that show Maricano hit harder then everyone? FOREMAN hit harder then Marciano, Shavers hit harder then Marciano, DEMPSEY hit harder then Marciano and im sure Frazier and Tyson would hit as hard.
For all the people on here who automatically assume Ali was the greatest just because he said so...
Did you know that in Ali's "prime" he was dropped by 180 lbs Henry Cooper? Or that a little man, Doug Jones wobbled him visibly in their fight?
This was before he was suspended from boxing...
There is this myth that Muhammed Ali was this UNBEATABLE force. He was quite beatable, in fact he has received around four or five GIFT decisions due to his name...
Ali called himself the greatest often enough that people started to call him that too, sportwriters caught on to this new breed of athlete...Ali was the first major self-promoter...he brought in the era of the egotistical athlete.
He is certainly one of the best heavyweights of all time, but in head-to-head competition, I can forsee a few greats beating him.
Let's not get carried away and say his "footwork" would enable him to dance circles around any great, such as Tyson, MArciano, Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, etc...He got caught during his prime by much, much lesser fighters.
Remember, his competition in the 1960s was not so great. By the time he fought Cleveland Williams, Williams was far-removed from his best. Liston threw the second fight. Henry Cooper and Doug Jones had him in trouble. He got pretty good gifts against Lyle and Norton. Chuck Wepner dropped him.
Ali was an all-time great, but I dont blindly buy into the hype that he easily beats any one on any day as so many uninformed fans do.
I read, i watch his videos... and thus i know he was the greatest, Cleveland williams was at his peak he beat LYLE CLEARLY and he beat norton twice... He never fought cooper in his prime, he fought cooper as the young, naieve CASSIUS clay.. he was at his prime in 1967... chuck wepner dropped him, he got back up and won did he not? you are referring to CASSIUS CLAY in most of your response. No boxer would ever beat a prime 1967 Ali 3/5 times, and majority of the sports writers and rankings by KNOWLEDGEABLE, reputable boxing experts agree.