Once fighters reach their mid thirties people are obsessed with them retiring. Let them decide when to retire. The only time I agree with the retirement talk is when it starts getting bad like it did for Roy Jones.
Don't get me wrong I rather fighters retire too early than too late, but from what Beterbiev has shown I don't think it'll hurt him if he wants to fight a bit longer. I think he said he wanted to continue until his early 40's but he would take it fight by fight. I think that's the correct way of going about it. Take it fight by fight.
If he beats Bivol, the obvious next fight is to fight the winner of Benavidez-Morrell. Team Beterbiev suggested they make 175 comfortably, so idk if he'll stay at 175 the rest of his career but if he does there are good fights left; assuming he beats Bivol again and the winner of Benavidez-Morrell. Buatsi, Benavidez/Morrell (whoever he didn't fight the first time), and I expect some guys from 168 to eventually move up. The most interesting to me is Osleys Iglesias.
Beterbiev could also target the record for longest reign at Light-Heavyweight as well. There are options left at 175.
He could also move up to fight Ramirez and Opetaia and I don't dislike his chances against either.
People are saying that Usyk can't be an ATG at Heavyweight because he's only had a few fights at the division. It's understandable, I guess... BUT in all 5 of his title fights at Heavyweight he beat a current or future World Champion. I was curious how that compared to other ATG Heavyweights and only 4 guys had more.
Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson had 8 former/current/future world champs.
Wladimir Klitschko and Joe Louis had 7.
*Klitschko had 9 if you include Povetkin and Pulev for their WBA regular which some people don't.
Tyson 8 in 10 wins
Holmes 8 in 21 wins
Klitschko 7 (*or 9) in 19 wins
Louis 7 in 27 wins
Individual reigns btw. Also, say what you want about Joshua/Dubois/Fury I would take them over some of the champions these other guys were fighting.
Someone fact check me. I did it quickly but it's something I want to look at deeper for sure.
Of course, not saying that's the end all be all, but Usyk has made his Heavyweight fights count. Other than his first two fights, I don't know what they were thinking because Matchroom had a deep Heavyweight roster at the time and they decided to waste Usyk's time with Witherspoon and Chisora (Chisora wasn't horrible in hindsight though). If he fights and beats the winner of Dubois/Parker, maybe even both regardless of what happens, that would be 6 or 7 for Usyk.
Also, another thing I find funny is that people say Usyk doesn't have a long reign so they can't rank him high, but they refuse to rank Klitschko high even though he had a long reign at Heavyweight. Can't have it both ways...
So you are comparing a 21 year old Ali to a prime Usyk?
Know what Usyk was doing when he was 21? Of course you don't
He was losing
To SHAWN PORTER
Usyk will turn 38 next month. He's not in his prime anymore... What were other greats doing at 37/38?
Also, Usyk was 19 when he fought Porter. If Usyk had turned pro at 19 he would have started at Super Middleweight. Would have made his run even more impressive.
Truth is, we won't know where Usyk ranks until he retires.
Some people may be overrating him a bit, but others are underrating him for sure.
But people are for sure overrating some of these guys from the past, like they always tend to do.They always look at the flaws and faults of the current guy but never for the guys from the past.
As far as my opinion, I've watched a lot of these guys from the past and Usyk ranks really highly when it comes to skills. Maybe even the most skilled.
Some people don't like hearing that for a current fighter but the pivots, feints, angle changes, educated lead hand, constantly changing levels, incredible chin, never leaving his head on the line, footwork, defensively responsible, stamina, etc. The only thing this guy is missing is that devasting power.
Usyk is as good as it gets, whether people like it or not. Usyk may be the most skilled IMO. Some may say I'm biased, he has been one of my favorites since I first watched him in 2008, but there's a reason why he's been one of my favorites...
Now, that doesn't mean Usyk would have beaten every single fighter before him or after him, because styles and one punch could literally change the whole fight, but when it comes down to skill Usyk is as good as it gets.
I remember everyone anticipating Loma’s rise when both became pro
Usyk turned out to be the man
Usyk has aged well he still has his legs fully underneath him at damn near 38
and he has one of the best engines in boxing. Endless endurance. Great recovery
Even with what might be a glass body
Loma messed up by signing with Top Rank. It's funny, if I'm not mistaken Top Rank really didn't want to sign Usyk, but in hindsight that was great for Usyk. It gave Usyk that freedom that Loma didn't have. Usyk was able to go about his business at Cruiserweight without people constantly criticizing his every move like Loma. I think that's what killed Loma's love for the sport.
I still love Loma. Loma is my standard when I judge young fighters. Probably because Loma is the best young fighter (talent) I've ever seen, back at 2006 World Youth Championships.
But Usyk reached that S tier level in the pros that not many reach. He can reach that "God" tier, that only a handful have reached, if he ends his career appropriately. Probably by beating Dubois-Parker winner (maybe even both), Opetaia, maybe even a Beterbiev (if Artur can beat Bivol again and the Benavidez-Morrell winner), Zhang-Kabayel winner wouldn't be a bad shout. I just hope he doesn't fight for too long. Father time beats everyone.
Loma reached "God" tier as an amateur but probably only A tier as a pro. Loma can reach S tier if he becomes undisputed at 135 or 130; I'd love to see him go back down to 130 to end his career.
People are saying that Usyk can't be an ATG at Heavyweight because he's only had a few fights at the division. It's understandable, I guess... BUT in all 5 of his title fights at Heavyweight he beat a current or future World Champion. I was curious how that compared to other ATG Heavyweights and only 4 guys had more.
Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson had 8 former/current/future world champs.
Wladimir Klitschko and Joe Louis had 7.
*Klitschko had 9 if you include Povetkin and Pulev for their WBA regular which some people don't.
Tyson 8 in 10 wins
Holmes 8 in 21 wins
Klitschko 7 (*or 9) in 19 wins
Louis 7 in 27 wins
Individual reigns btw. Also, say what you want about Joshua/Dubois/Fury I would take them over some of the champions these other guys were fighting.
Someone fact check me. I did it quickly but it's something I want to look at deeper for sure.
Of course, not saying that's the end all be all, but Usyk has made his Heavyweight fights count. Other than his first two fights, I don't know what they were thinking because Matchroom had a deep Heavyweight roster at the time and they decided to waste Usyk's time with Witherspoon and Chisora (Chisora wasn't horrible in hindsight though). If he fights and beats the winner of Dubois/Parker, maybe even both regardless of what happens, that would be 6 or 7 for Usyk.
Also, another thing I find funny is that people say Usyk doesn't have a long reign so they can't rank him high, but they refuse to rank Klitschko high even though he had a long reign at Heavyweight. Can't have it both ways...
I posted this on a different thread but it probably makes more sense here.
if you are hardcore fan i don't think you would praise guys who clearly break the rules by clinching,bending below the waist, etc..by definition a hardcore fan should know and appreciate the rules. it's like saying andrew golota is a great fighter and his low blows are just part of his skill set. that's exactly what some people say when their favs constantly break the rules with defensive minded fouls. or they say its part of boxing. hey so are low blows get um golota!
What?? This caught me completely off guard. What fighter are you talking about? Every fighter breaks the rules from time to time, that's just how it is. We can't do much about it, even if we complain they probably won't stop. The fighters themselves will have to warn the referee or something and the referee's would have to notice during the fight and actually do something about the illegal tactic (hopefully the referee knows all the rules lol).
Salido used every dirty move in the book against Lomachenko and the referee did nothing. Lomachenko didn't have the pro experience to know how to handle it. I mean it got me pissed off, but I couldn't do anything about it; as much as it sucked we have to move on.
He isn't in mine
1)Floyd Mayweather
2)Andre Ward(he is still the second best fighter overall in the game, yes he has been inactive but his resume surpasses a lot of others and he is still fresh and young, he'll come back strong)
3)Wladimir Klitschko
4)Roman Gonzalez
5) Guillermo Riogondeaux
6)Juan Francisco Estrada
7)Sergey Kovalev
8)Manny Pacquaio
9)Canelo Alvarez
10)Terrence Crawford
I don't look at all the ko's and the WBA trinket....he didn't beat anyone worth much for the title, never beat a champion for a title, has only faced and defeated 4 top ten contenders in almost 35 fights.....his level of competition for his age, skill set, and hype leaves much to be desired....he could be in Crawford's tenth spot, but Crawford has won titles the WBO titles at 135 and 140, was ring champion at lightweight
You say GGG hasn't done enough but Crawford has? Crawford was in the weakest division in all of boxing one fight ago. You can say 160 is weak all you want, but 135 is truly the weakest division in all of boxing (it has been for a few years now). Then he moved up to fight the legendary fighter and atg Thomas freaking Dulorme, haha. GGG has fought more top 10 fighters (in their division) than Crawford and has beaten them all more convincingly than Crawford has with his.
I'm not saying GGG is the best fighter in the world, but GGG has definitely done more than Crawford. But at the end of the day, that's your list and all lists are subjective.
it wasn't directed at you or anything. i was just explaining my perception of what the average "hardcore fan" is. someone who doesn't care about the rules(when it comes to defensive minded fouls) and thinks those fouls are great boxing moves.
fouls do happen from time to time but not every fighter develops a fight strategy that is based on not following the rules. guys like wlad, ward, and floyd do that. they use clinching, bending below the waist, etc...constantly as their strategy. i'm not a nitpicker and understand from time to time there will be fouls but the amount of fouls they get away with is absurd. literally sometimes hundreds in a fight. you can't get away with 100 low blows even if your name is danny garcia or abner mares you would be dq'd. the problem is these defensive fouls are rarely even considered fouls and the refs are just completely corrupt in boxing and will do anything to protect the a-side. when a clincher becomes an a-side ughhh watch out because you are in for a long journey of boredom and frustration. or if you are a "hardcore fan" a long journey of awesomeness!
we can do something about it if we complain and don't support fighters that constantly do it. remember boxing is a business. if the fighters who cheat aren't generating any revenue the boxing industry isn't going to want to protect them very much and the rules will start being enforced tighter to see that they don't get back in the drivers seat of boxing.
No I didn't take it the wrong way, it just caught me off guard that's all lol. Yeah I see what you're saying and I agree on most points. There is some boxers that have found a way to cheat the system. It's mainly "money" fighters (that are draws or are popular) that get away with it. The referee's are the ones that have to do something about it, but most of the time they don't. That Lomachenko-Salido fight will always hurt me, because I'm a Loma fan and the referee did nothing to stop Salido and his dirty tactics (I guess Lomachenko could have done more to prevent it, but ehh).
GGG is not on wards level
Face it ward has less fights n beat better guys
Olympic gold medallist
Undefeated
Can fight anywhere in the ring
GGG is a good fighter but casuals hype him up like any other puncher
You can't beat what you can't hit...GGG got a lot to show me before I ever think he can beat ward who is proven on all levels
PAC stans have turned to GGG....history repeats itself all the time...more times than not the more versatile skilled guy wins when talent is close
Ward is bigger, stronger, faster, slicker, more versatile
This will be may vs PAC all over again because the more proven skilled fighter isnt as popular but he will win
Mark my words....GGG getting undressed by ward and I ain't talking sex
That's what bothers you? I mean what do you expect? Casual fans are not like us (hardcore fans) that can appreciate boxers, punchers, brawlers; of course they will like fighters like GGG or Pacquiao more than slick boxer, because for them it's just another form of entertainment. They want to see knockouts or exciting styles. It's almost like us boxing fans being a casual fan of another sport. We will not find everything about that sport entertaining.
You're generalizing, I'm a GGG fan and I've never been a big Pac fan. There probably is Pac fans that switched to being a GGG fan. Those fans are either legit as they may like both fighters or are just going with the flow because they feel like being a GGG fan is the "cool" thing to do (which doesn't make them real fans like me). But who knows.
GGG has to move up a weight class to finally get "exposed"? lol
Crawford has almost ten less fights and is the more versatile fighter, is a two division title holder, one being lineal
He is actual near or in his prime and has room to grow where as GGG is what he is gonna be at this point....he is 33+
If they were the same size I'd pick Crawford to win...he is more versatile and has killer instinct when he needs it
He is just flat out a better fighter to me than GGG
If they were the same size naturally I would easily pick GGG by KO no hesitation. Crawford is the guy that was rocked by a small Gamboa, GGG would knock him out, but guess what we will never find out. But like I said it's your opinion, just like it's mine.
The reason people say 140-154 are the "best" divisions in boxing is because it's where American fighters dominate. Any weight where there is no American threat is considered a weak division.
gtfoh with that nonsense. An overrated Gary Russell, three nobodies, and a loss to Salido?
If you don't like the guy, just say it. There are way too many dumbasses on this site that hate on Golovkin, seemingly for no other reason than he's getting some hype because he's fuking awesome to watch. That and he's making other fighters look like scared cúnts, and their fans feel it necessary to dog Golovkin to deflect criticism of their favorite fighter.
And of course there's the racial aspect, which is pretty blatant when you consider who the loudest GGG detractors are. I don't care if it's not polite or against the rules to point it out. If Gennady was a black guy from Philly, these same boxing fans would swear he was the next ATG. Instead, they pretend he's some unskilled nobody. To them, he's simply the next non-black fighter that will be exposed (and in Gennady's case he will exposed by the undisputed champion of a higher weight class, lmfao). If Ward is his only real test, then he's a lot better than his critics give him credit for.
/rantover
Controversial loss you mean. I don't even know what Lomachenko has to do with this (not blaming you, I know you didn't bring him up).
But other than that, I agree with most of your post. I think some of these guys are trolls trying to make GGG fans mad, they only want attention.
They're not making me mad, it's actually funny and entertaining seeing what they have to say lol.
Pat McCormack looked sharp in his first fight.
He'll have to fight Giyasov in the Quarterfinals most likely.
McCormack is more talented than Giyasov.
He just can't get overwhelmed.
And hopefully he can get a decision if he deserves it.
Pat has the talent to go all the way I think.
He's the same, it's just that he's never looked great against Mina.
Maybe it is just that because he looked pretty good in his last fight. I even made a comment after that fight about him and Dusmatov still being the top two guys p4p in amateur boxing.
Did anyone's stream stop?
I am so glad Yeraliev didn't get robbed. So far to me him and de los Santos are the best guys at 56. I hate Akhmadaliev, he is just a tough man boxing, he got outlanded like 4-1. I don't know what's up with de los Santos and the splits he is getting. His fights are not even competitive.
Sotomayor, Dunaytsev and Lopez coming up
Yeah. de los Santos better be careful against McGrail. His fight against the Italian wasn't even close and he just barely won in the judges eyes. Meanwhile McGrail won by a huge margin despite missing a lot. McGrail tries too hard in my opinion.
Yeah, Yeraliyev always looks solid. I'm glad he beat Akhmadaliev. Not a huge fan of Akhmadaliev.
I hope so. Why wait three years for the Olympics when he might get robbed before he even reaches the medal rounds? He could be fighting for British and European titles by that time if he turns pro now
Yeah there is no point in staying amateur.
He should just go pro. He's the best amateur fighter from England/GB I have ever seen. Too bad the results won't show that.
Cruz is the most athletic I think, he looks like Neo from the Matrix on defense, Dusmatov is the most technical, Madrimov I think is the biggest beast lol
I agree.
Cruz had his Jones Jr/Lomachenko moments in there.
Dusmatov doesn't commit too many mistakes.
Madrimov is so strong and explosive. Him versus Khyzniak in the semifinals is going to be a war. Madrimov has more tools but Khyzniak is difficult to keep away. I can't wait.
Yuberjen Martinez just put on the most dominating performance of the World Championships so far in my opinion against the European Silver Medalist, Galal Yafai.
I've given Yeraliyev both first rounds. He has landed more.
McGrail has shown good footwork but where is the offense.
That's what I've always been critical about McGrail. His offense is lacking. Just my opinion.
Good fights after the first fights.
Niall Farrell vs Ceiber Avila Ring B
Iurii Shestak vs Callum French Ring B
Sergei Sobylinskii vs Randall Ring B
Muslim GADZHIMAGOMEDOV vs Bektemir Melikuziev Ring B
Most of the good fights are in Ring B this session.
I don't even know why I said Sobylinskii vs Randall as a fight to watch.
Neither is very good. Like at all.
You are completely right here, i actually think that next year will also be as weak as this without many big tournaments on the line, 2019 will be nice.
Yeah there isn't anything big for Senior/Elite boxing next year, but we will get a glimpse of the future with the 2018 Youth World Championships and Youth Olympics.
I'm already looking forward to some of the young talent competing there. Hopefully they don't disappoint.
I can't believe we will only have eight weight classes going forward. So disappointing.
Kairat Yeraliyev upsets Akhmadaliev. Well deserved. Yeraliyev fought his heart out. Well deserved.
Leonel de los Santos dominated the Italian but somehow only won by split decision.
Other than that scoring has been really good so far.
Yeah Clarke looked pretty bad in the Euros and someone said that he was carrying an injury even then, and yet he still came very close to winning gold. I like McGrail simply because his style is not one that you see too often in British fighters, same with Josh Kelly. This is probably an unpopular opinion but I think he could actually benefit from becoming more negative, as he sometimes plants his feet and throws punches unnecessarily, opening himself up to counters, when he could just as easily pot-shot on the move like a poor man's La Cruz. As for McCormack I think his heart is in the pros already. He doesn't score points as well as he used to, he seems more concerned with trying to hurt his opponents
I still believe that Arlen is the best middleweight, his form has just dropped since Rio for some reason. Possibly complacency or boredom
I like Cheavan Clarke more to be honest.
Something about McGrail doesn't convince me. I do like Josh Kelly though.
What do you think of Callum French? I really like what I see from him.
McCormack is so talented. I will support him no matter what route he goes. Whether it's to stay amateur or turn pro but for now he has to stay focus in what he is doing. He could go on to make a lot of history for Great Britain and possibly become the greatest amateur boxer to come out of the program. I hope he can take home the Gold. I think he will medal for sure. Tough division though. He has the potential to win gold in his best form.
I think they are going to kill each other. Whoever wins might have to forefeit the finals due to injuries or smth lol
Based on what I saw today.
Madrimov is the favorite for Gold in my opinion. He's really good.